NEW things in Kenpo

[kenpochip]

Mr. C said in the 10th dan thread:

I have seen nothing NEW from anyone. I have seen a lot of interesting teaching methods, drills, explanations and developments to add to the various different areas of the Art, but nothing "new".

What would something "new" look like? Is it even possible for anything to appear new, or would everything be seen as a subset of what Mr. Parker started (depending on who was doing the viewing) ?


KenpoChip

 

[GouRonin]

Ed Parker pretty much touched it all. Unless man grows another arm or leg, there are only so many ways of doing things. I wish that Ed Parker was around because I would be digging what and where he was taking his art. I bet a lot of people would be surprised. I bet he would have gone into depth in areas that he only had the chance to lightly touch on.

As for new things I personally like Zach Whitson's "Kenpo Counterpoint" drills. While it's not new material it's a neat way of training that offers a fresh flavour to the material.

http://members.tripod.com/~russianmartialart/whitson1.html

 

[tarabos]

i agree with Gou.

i think we can all agree that Ed Parker was a martial arts genius. my view is, for someone to actually come up with something "new," they would have to also be a genius in their own right, perhaps even more than Mr. Parker was. So asking us average martial artists what "new" is probably won't get many great answers...because if one of us actually had the answer we'd probably be inventing our own system at this moment. also, for someone to do that...be a head of a martial art or grandmaster if you will....they will have to be able to back it up as well like Mr. Parker was able to do, not just be all talk. not everyday that an Ed Parker comes around.

kenpo has always been meant to change and adapt and be tailored to your own preferences and style. it will always stem from the foundation layed down by Ed Parker.

and fusing your kenpo with another art such as grappling isn't something new if you ask me. it's just supplementing it with another art.

 

[tarabos]

btw Gou, i noticed the KenpoNet Mall is also carrying the Whitson tapes now. maybe they have been for a while now, i don't visit the KenpoNet all that often :idunno:

you think he prefers people going directly through him or does it make no difference?

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by tarabos
btw Gou, i noticed the KenpoNet Mall is also carrying the Whitson tapes now. maybe they have been for a while now, i don't visit the KenpoNet all that often :idunno:
you think he prefers people going directly through him or does it make no difference?

KenpoNet gets it directly from Zach. I don't know if they charge a markup or not. I just send people right to him. He's a great guy with a lot of knowledge to boot. As far as I am concerned his word is as good as any guarentee.

Originally posted by tarabos
i agree with Gou.

That's because 99.99% of the time... I'm right.

Originally posted by tarabos
i think we can all agree that Ed Parker was a martial arts genius. also, for someone to do that...be a head of a martial art or grandmaster if you will....they will have to be able to back it up as well like Mr. Parker was able to do, not just be all talk. not everyday that an Ed Parker comes around.

Now I am agreeing with you.

Originally posted by tarabos
kenpo has always been meant to change and adapt and be tailored to your own preferences and style. it will always stem from the foundation layed down by Ed Parker. and fusing your kenpo with another art such as grappling isn't something new if you ask me. it's just supplementing it with another art.

I don't even think it's supplimenting it with another art. I use Kenpo principles all the time in grappling. Then again, I use Systema principles to make my Kenpo stuff work better for me. It all comes out of the same pond. Just different sections and depths.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by GouRonin
KenpoNet gets it directly from Zach. I don't know if they charge a markup or not. I just send people right to him. He's a great guy with a lot of knowledge to boot. As far as I am concerned his word is as good as any guarentee.

Actually Zach gave them a discount, so they could sell it for the
same price that Zach himself sells it for. The difference is that
kenponet accepts credit cards, Zach doesn't. At least not when
I bought my copy.

 

[tarabos]

Originally posted by GouRonin
I don't even think it's supplimenting it with another art. I use Kenpo principles all the time in grappling. Then again, I use Systema principles to make my Kenpo stuff work better for me. It all comes out of the same pond. Just different sections and depths.

pretty much....and that pond it comes out of is the human body. the mechanics of it, how it is manipulated, how physics affects it. old Bruce used to toss around the "as long as humans don't grow a third leg or arm, there won't be anything truly new in the martial arts" quote (however it goes). i pretty much agreed with him.

then i experienced things like systema and things were different, while still playing by the same rules more or less. so who's to say there won't be another Vlad or another Parker to come around with yet another way of looking at things?

 

[jeffkyle]

I sure hope someone like that comes along. That would be great.

 

[brianhunter]

Okay, Ive really thought about this.
Was anything in Kenpo really "new"?
Lets say we have been using something for years lets say a cuctus leaf as a balm for years. We know it works, we just dont have the science to say exactly why. Someone comes along and says "hey ive broken down the leaf and its a thing called Aloe inside that helps with the healing!" We continue to use the cactus leaf the same way but now we now know how it works, not just that it works. Did we invent something new? or had we been using it all along not realizing the why.
It had never been broken down or analyzed to the extent that Mr Parker did and there in lies his genious I think. Instead of throwing a punch and saying it works because Sensei said do it like this, you could say it works because Im using a torquing motion and back up mass. Where we punching the same way? Probably just a different way of breaking it down.

So is it new because we found another way to label it? Or new because of the way we compounded old things together? I dont know, Im trying to figure this out myself.

 

[bahenlaura]

Originally posted by brianhunter
Okay, Ive really thought about this.
Was anything in Kenpo really "new"?
Lets say we have been using something for years lets say a cuctus leaf as a balm for years. We know it works, we just dont have the science to say exactly why. Someone comes along and says "hey ive broken down the leaf and its a thing called Aloe inside that helps with the healing!" We continue to use the cactus leaf the same way but now we now know how it works, not just that it works. Did we invent something new? or had we been using it all along not realizing the why.
It had never been broken down or analyzed to the extent that Mr Parker did and there in lies his genious I think. Instead of throwing a punch and saying it works because Sensei said do it like this, you could say it works because Im using a torquing motion and back up mass. Where we punching the same way? Probably just a different way of breaking it down.

So is it new because we found another way to label it? Or new because of the way we compounded old things together? I dont know, Im trying to figure this out myself.

Now Dear Brian,

How I see it is more like, before You ate the whole cuctus raw with leaf and skin and thorn to get the benefit. That is a wild and rough way of enjoying the benefits of its healing magic, however you have the man come around and show you what you need to do correctly to cultivate the maximum effect of that plant.
so what am I trying to say? Not every punch is the same and not every Kick is the same, Thus not every system is the same!
Burt
:asian:

 

[tarabos]

all in all though...i think we're doing what most kenpoists do way too much...and that's reading into something WAY too much....

my head is starting to hurt here...

 

[Elfan]

I think of it this way, there is this idea or "a posteriori" (knowledge gained through the senses and experience) of this thing called fighting. The people who understand it got it from lots of fighting and seeing what worked and what didn't. Now the trick is how to pass this knowledge on so the next generation doesn't have to go through all that all over again. Ed Parker had a new approach to how to pass that knowledge on. He didn't come up with a new way to fight, to paraphrase Bruce Lee unless aliens from space come with three arms and four legs there won't be any new ways of fighting. Rather he came up with a new way of teaching and logicaly thinking about fighting so that it could be passed on. What his students have done in his abscence is to further refine and develope their understanding of first what he was trying to pass on and then how to pass it on.

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by tarabos
btw Gou, i noticed the KenpoNet Mall is also carrying the Whitson tapes now. maybe they have been for a while now, i don't visit the KenpoNet all that often :idunno:

you think he prefers people going directly through him or does it make no difference?

Glad you got rid of the dog, he was smelling up the place!:rofl:

 

[tarabos]

Originally posted by RCastillo
Glad you got rid of the dog, he was smelling up the place!:rofl:

i'm not so sure steven seagal smells much better...