New student in my Dojo

Mizu

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Hello,

I'm asking this question to all the Shidoshi and Shihan that have a long experience in teaching.

In my Dojo there's a new student who studied with another Shidoshi for some years. He claims to be 1st kyu but he doesn't have any basic. He is not able to perform Kihon Happo, Sanshin No Kata and Ukemi. His movements are like a beginner, he doesn't have balance and often he hits hard my other students because he is not able to perform what I teach.
This could be his Ex Shidoshi fault who didn't teach him ANYTHING or his fault whom during all this years didn't study what his Ex Shidoshi taught him.

Now... from my point of view he should start again from the beginning but he asked me about the black belt many times and I'm sure that he will not accept my decision.

His ex teacher is a Shihan and he gave him the 1st kyu.. Do I HAVE TO accept his rank even if his real rank is not more that 9th kyu??

My 8th kyu students are asking me how it's possible that a 1st kyu doesn't know Kihon Happo and Sanshin no Kata!

I will accept any suggestion to solve my problem...

Thanks in advance and sorry for my bad english.

Francesco
Italy
 

Tez3

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I'm from karate, if a student came in claiming a rank and could do everything that was expected of that rank to an acceptable standard I would accept him at that rank. If, like your student he doesn't know what he should for that rank, he must learn and test again to your satisfaction.It's not fair on your other students who have worked hard for their rank.
Test him at 1st kyu and when it's clear to him that he doesn't know what he's doing he should accept the rank you give him, if he doesn't and leaves I think there will be no loss to you!

By the way your English is excellent, better than many English speakers! Where in Italy are yu? I went to Naples a couple of years ago as one of our MMA fighters was in a competition there, the fighters were good but the drivers on the streets were very scary!! We were looked after very well by the Italians, very nice people!
 

Carol

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If you don't honor his rank, then you will have one student that is not happy. The unhappy student is the one not performing to your standards.

If you do honor his rank, then you are likely to have many unhappy students. Worse, the unhappy students are the ones that performing to your standards.
 
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Mizu

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I am the one who test him.
The problem is that last week I tested him for the 9th and 8th kyu and he wasn't able to pass the test! I think it's useless to test him for 1st kyu don't you think?
I asked him simple things that usually I teach to beginners who train for the first time and he didn't know it... You should have seen my other student's faces! :erg:
I think will will talk to him clearly about his rank... I can't accept it.

I'm happy you enjoyed your italian trip.
I'm located in the centre of Italy, do you know Firenze (Florence) ?
Naples is a wonderful city but the drivers are crazy! :) They are famous all over Italy...
 

terryl965

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Simple anybody can claim anything, but a real student that has been studying can proform simple task if not they start over.
 
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Mizu

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If you don't honor his rank, then you will have one student that is not happy. The unhappy student is the one not performing to your standards.

If you do honor his rank, then you are likely to have many unhappy students. Worse, the unhappy students are the ones that performing to your standards.

That's it...
My students work hard to improove their skills also outside the Dojo and I'm sure that they will not accept such a decision.
I will definitively confirm his real rank...
 
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Mizu

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Simple anybody can claim anything, but a real student that has been studying can proform simple task if not they start over.

He could really be the rank he claims... I know that many students of this Shihan got high ranks without knowing anything.
I think that people should not accept high ranks if they don't deserve it.
 

terryl965

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He could really be the rank he claims... I know that many students of this Shihan got high ranks without knowing anything.
I think that people should not accept high ranks if they don't deserve it.

I agree your school your rules plan and simple.
 
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Mizu

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In your Training Hall it is your standards that do apply!

I think this problem is not about Dojo standards.
I have never seen a 1st kyu that doesn't know what Shako Ken is..... just to make an example...
We are talking about a person near the Shodan who doesn't know beginner's techniques.
I teach Kihon Happo and Sanshin No Kata everyday, to everyone.... 10th kyu and Nidan. That's my Dojo standards....

Francesco
Italy
 

Cryozombie

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Ask to see his rank certs from Japan. If he cannot produce them make him start over... or leave him at 1st kyu, but make him stay first kyu until his taijutsu is up to your standards as a first kyu.

Just my suggestion.
 

Carol

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A compromise situation could be to start the student at the beginning, but to be prepared to promote him at a faster pace than you have your other students if (and only if) he shows that he has the aptitude. This respects the past training of the individual while still maintaining the value of the education that you give in your dojo. It also give you as the instructor the chance to see what he does know and what he doesn't know in more detail.

The 1st kyu may not think that is enough. If his dissatisfaction is to the point where he starts to create a disruption in the class, you may have to consider not having him train at your school.
 

jks9199

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He could really be the rank he claims... I know that many students of this Shihan got high ranks without knowing anything.
I think that people should not accept high ranks if they don't deserve it.
There's a problem with that thinking... If you don't know you aren't ready or capable, you don't know that you don't deserve the rank.

Is rank important in your dojo? He should realize by now that he doesn't know what your students do; he may be willing to accept holding his rank, and training up to it.
 
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Mizu

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Ask to see his rank certs from Japan. If he cannot produce them make him start over... or leave him at 1st kyu, but make him stay first kyu until his taijutsu is up to your standards as a first kyu.

Just my suggestion.

I already know that he doesn't have the rank cert from Japan.. there's no need to ask. :)
I think I will keep teaching him what he really need, without giving him the only thing he wants from me... the Shodan. I will see what happen.
 
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Mizu

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There's a problem with that thinking... If you don't know you aren't ready or capable, you don't know that you don't deserve the rank.

Is rank important in your dojo? He should realize by now that he doesn't know what your students do; he may be willing to accept holding his rank, and training up to it.

The rank is not so important in my Dojo.
We are together just to train and improove. We are all friends and higher ranks always help lower ranks. The rank is just a number but it help the organizazion of a Dojo.
I think (not only me) that his is training with me just because he wants the Shodan.
 
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Mizu

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A compromise situation could be to start the student at the beginning, but to be prepared to promote him at a faster pace than you have your other students if (and only if) he shows that he has the aptitude. This respects the past training of the individual while still maintaining the value of the education that you give in your dojo. It also give you as the instructor the chance to see what he does know and what he doesn't know in more detail.

The 1st kyu may not think that is enough. If his dissatisfaction is to the point where he starts to create a disruption in the class, you may have to consider not having him train at your school.

He is in my Dojo since last September. I tried to teach him but it seems he doesn't want to learn! He didn't improove in anything in the last 6 months!

As I already said, I think he's training with me just to get the Shodan.

People in the Dojo don't respect him a lot because when I teach something he never train in it with his training partner. He just want to show his skills hitting hard and not letting the other person train correctly.
 

morph4me

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Keep training him and expecting him to live up to your standards, he'll either learn from you or leave, either way you haven't compromised your standards or reputation.
 

Cryozombie

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I already know that he doesn't have the rank cert from Japan.. there's no need to ask. :)
I think I will keep teaching him what he really need, without giving him the only thing he wants from me... the Shodan. I will see what happen.

That's a good solution. :)
 
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