New student in my Dojo

[Obi Wan Shinobi]

Sounds to me like everyone's input is excellent. As for me I would just have to let him know that in my dojo I expect certain kyu ranks to know certain parts of the kihon happo and sanshin no kata. And if he doesn't have rank from Japan then technically he's still mukyu until he pays for his annual membership AND his sensei sends in for his rank like everyone else. Eventually in the long run if he is serious about his training then he'll continue training if not then you just weeded out someone who otherwise wasn't truly serious about learning Bujinkan.

 

[LuzRD]

is there any chance that this student is confused and reversed 1st and 9th kyu? thinking that 1st kyu is the lower rank??
...not likely, however worth a shot.i
if not, i believe (correct me if im wrong) it is up to you (his teacher) to decide when he is ready/if you should advance him early to motivate him (not my first choice if the student thinks they are ready for advancement)/rank him where you feel he belongs... etc

 

[Fiendlover]

That's a basic rule I think.

i agree. when i own my own dojo im going to be as strict as hell. if u can't do something then try and try and try until u do. until he proves himself to be the rank he claims then start him at um was it 9th kyu? (im in karate we do white belt to black)

 

[jks9199]

is there any chance that this student is confused and reversed 1st and 9th kyu? thinking that 1st kyu is the lower rank??
...not likely, however worth a shot.i
if not, i believe (correct me if im wrong) it is up to you (his teacher) to decide when he is ready/if you should advance him early to motivate him (not my first choice if the student thinks they are ready for advancement)/rank him where you feel he belongs... etc

I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt, but if he's pushing to test for black belt... he knows where he thinks he is.

This highlights one headache in many styles where there aren't a lot of formal criteria for promotion system-wide. You get people being promoted to a certain level by one teacher who would never meet the criteria in another class... Which can get frustrating for teachers when students move.

 

[Mizu]

First I would like to thank everyone for the precious suggestions and help... I really appreciated it.

What I can say is that this person is just looking for an easy Shodan.
It's not possible that after 6 months of training with me he hasn't got anything about my teachings.
You should see him training and you would understand.
We use to start our classes with some warm up... usually 45 minutes of running, stretching, push ups, jumps, ukemi and so on... After 10 minutes he is done and he sit down untill the warm up is ended.
When I teach something, he get a training partner (everyone try NOT to train with him) and he perform completely different things than I shown. My students always come to saying that they can't train correctly with him. He try to show them his own techniques without following my teachings.

One night I was ill and I couldn't go to the Dojo. I called one of my studets and told him to make some warm up and train in the basics they know.
This 1st kyu arrived at the Dojo and pretended to teach to my students just because he is an higher rank. They said that I gave them istructions to train in Kihon Happo and you know what? He answered... Kihon Happo? Ok tonight i don't train... I go home.

I'm writing all this to make you understand that this problem doesn't depend from the Dojo standards differences. I got many guests in my Dojo from other countries... from 8th kyu to Shodan but their levels were great.
This person doesn't want to learn, doen't want to improove... he just want the black belt!

Anyways... I decided to keep teaching him what he really need and if he will get tired he will leave... better for me.

After 5 years of teaching, 2 active Dojos and 35 students, this is the first time I have problems with one of my(?) students.

Thanks again for all your answers and sorry if I annoyed you all.

 

[paulee]

I recently re-entered the martial arts after a multi-year layoff. I was extended the opportunity to claim my previous rank, but I chose to start at the begining. Within the first few weeks, I had people asking me if I had previous training, telling me "You don't move like a beginer." This guy can claim whatever he wants to, but if he walks like a beginer, talks like a beginer, well .... he isn't worthy of the rank he claims. Tell him so. If all he wants from you is the shodan, he'll move on, having contributed nothing to your dojo. If he is serious about the art, he will humble himself, and add to your dojo.

 

[Tez3]

First I would like to thank everyone for the precious suggestions and help... I really appreciated it.

What I can say is that this person is just looking for an easy Shodan.
It's not possible that after 6 months of training with me he hasn't got anything about my teachings.
You should see him training and you would understand.
We use to start our classes with some warm up... usually 45 minutes of running, stretching, push ups, jumps, ukemi and so on... After 10 minutes he is done and he sit down untill the warm up is ended.
When I teach something, he get a training partner (everyone try NOT to train with him) and he perform completely different things than I shown. My students always come to saying that they can't train correctly with him. He try to show them his own techniques without following my teachings.

One night I was ill and I couldn't go to the Dojo. I called one of my studets and told him to make some warm up and train in the basics they know.
This 1st kyu arrived at the Dojo and pretended to teach to my students just because he is an higher rank. They said that I gave them istructions to train in Kihon Happo and you know what? He answered... Kihon Happo? Ok tonight i don't train... I go home.

I'm writing all this to make you understand that this problem doesn't depend from the Dojo standards differences. I got many guests in my Dojo from other countries... from 8th kyu to Shodan but their levels were great.
This person doesn't want to learn, doen't want to improove... he just want the black belt!

Anyways... I decided to keep teaching him what he really need and if he will get tired he will leave... better for me.

After 5 years of teaching, 2 active Dojos and 35 students, this is the first time I have problems with one of my(?) students.

Thanks again for all your answers and sorry if I annoyed you all.[/quote

]

You haven't annoyed anyone at all! it's a good discussion and it's always valuable to hear peoples views even if the subject doesn't concern us at the time. It's good to learn from other peoples experiences, it helps when the situation happens to us. Thank you for posting this and please...keep posting!

 

[fireman00]

Your school - your rules. If he hasn't mastered the basics and does not meet your critia for promotion then he doesn't get a black belt. If he can't accept that fact then his previous teacher failed him twice.

 

[Shicomm]

From my personal experience i've noticed that things work a bit "odd" in Italy but that's a different discussion.

The behaviour of the student seems "disturbing" so proper action could be taken, no issues regarding rank there
On the other hand ; when there is actual testing going on for new ranks it could attrack rank chasers.

As you said he's just asking about his possibilities to get to a new rank, seems clear to me ...
It would be nice to ask such person why he/she is in training, no need for 'stupid talk' there but it would be nice to get to their point of view.
You can learn from everyone!

 

[jks9199]

First I would like to thank everyone for the precious suggestions and help... I really appreciated it.

hat after 6 months of training with me he hasn't got anything about my teachings. What I can say is that this person is just looking for an easy Shodan.
It's not possible that after 6 months of training with me he hasn't got anything about my teachings.

Sure it is. He's not choosing to learn from you.

You should see him training and you would understand.
We use to start our classes with some warm up... usually 45 minutes of running, stretching, push ups, jumps, ukemi and so on... After 10 minutes he is done and he sit down untill the warm up is ended.
When I teach something, he get a training partner (everyone try NOT to train with him) and he perform completely different things than I shown. My students always come to saying that they can't train correctly with him. He try to show them his own techniques without following my teachings.

At this point, I have a simple question. Why are you still even trying? Sometimes, someone is just too much of a disruption, and this guy seems to be one of them. He's refusing to learn what you're teaching, he's not working properly with his partners, and he's doing his own thing instead of the lesson you're teaching. He doesn't want to be there.

One night I was ill and I couldn't go to the Dojo. I called one of my studets and told him to make some warm up and train in the basics they know.
This 1st kyu arrived at the Dojo and pretended to teach to my students just because he is an higher rank. They said that I gave them istructions to train in Kihon Happo and you know what? He answered... Kihon Happo? Ok tonight i don't train... I go home.

See, he doesn't want to be there. And he tried to derail the class when you weren't there. It speaks well for your students that they didn't let him.

I'm writing all this to make you understand that this problem doesn't depend from the Dojo standards differences. I got many guests in my Dojo from other countries... from 8th kyu to Shodan but their levels were great.
This person doesn't want to learn, doen't want to improove... he just want the black belt!

Anyways... I decided to keep teaching him what he really need and if he will get tired he will leave... better for me.

After 5 years of teaching, 2 active Dojos and 35 students, this is the first time I have problems with one of my(?) students.

Thanks again for all your answers and sorry if I annoyed you all.

I respect your attitude and desire to teach this guy, but I'd say that you're wasting your time, your student's time, and his time. You're not going to give him a black belt (and you shouldn't!) unless he meets your standard, and there's nothing to suggest that he'll ever choose to train to do so.

Maybe it's just the Bujinkan students here on MT, but it's my understanding that Kihon Happo is the key, base set of techniques in Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu. If the guy won't learn and practice it... why try to work anything else with him?

 

[Mizu]

First I would like to thank everyone for the precious suggestions and help... I really appreciated it.

What I can say is that this person is just looking for an easy Shodan.
It's not possible that after 6 months of training with me he hasn't got anything about my teachings.
You should see him training and you would understand.
We use to start our classes with some warm up... usually 45 minutes of running, stretching, push ups, jumps, ukemi and so on... After 10 minutes he is done and he sit down untill the warm up is ended.
When I teach something, he get a training partner (everyone try NOT to train with him) and he perform completely different things than I shown. My students always come to saying that they can't train correctly with him. He try to show them his own techniques without following my teachings.

One night I was ill and I couldn't go to the Dojo. I called one of my studets and told him to make some warm up and train in the basics they know.
This 1st kyu arrived at the Dojo and pretended to teach to my students just because he is an higher rank. They said that I gave them istructions to train in Kihon Happo and you know what? He answered... Kihon Happo? Ok tonight i don't train... I go home.

I'm writing all this to make you understand that this problem doesn't depend from the Dojo standards differences. I got many guests in my Dojo from other countries... from 8th kyu to Shodan but their levels were great.
This person doesn't want to learn, doen't want to improove... he just want the black belt!

Anyways... I decided to keep teaching him what he really need and if he will get tired he will leave... better for me.

After 5 years of teaching, 2 active Dojos and 35 students, this is the first time I have problems with one of my(?) students.

Thanks again for all your answers and sorry if I annoyed you all.[/quote

]

You haven't annoyed anyone at all! it's a good discussion and it's always valuable to hear peoples views even if the subject doesn't concern us at the time. It's good to learn from other peoples experiences, it helps when the situation happens to us. Thank you for posting this and please...keep posting!

Thank you very much!
I will keep posting for sure... I didn't think to get so much help.

 

[Mizu]

From my personal experience i've noticed that things work a bit "odd" in Italy but that's a different discussion.

The behaviour of the student seems "disturbing" so proper action could be taken, no issues regarding rank there
On the other hand ; when there is actual testing going on for new ranks it could attrack rank chasers.

As you said he's just asking about his possibilities to get to a new rank, seems clear to me ...
It would be nice to ask such person why he/she is in training, no need for 'stupid talk' there but it would be nice to get to their point of view.
You can learn from everyone!

I can't do much more than try to make him uderstand that he doesn't deserve and higher rank... teaching him what he really needs it's maybe the best way to get him "bored".

I'm not the owner of the Dojo and I'm not the one who get the money from the students so I can't tell him to stop attending my classes.

Maybe I know why he is training... He likes to be a MASTER, it's clear.
He often attend other classes around Italy with Neo Ninja groups and when he goes there he wears the black belt.

 

[Mizu]

Sure it is. He's not choosing to learn from you.


At this point, I have a simple question. Why are you still even trying? Sometimes, someone is just too much of a disruption, and this guy seems to be one of them. He's refusing to learn what you're teaching, he's not working properly with his partners, and he's doing his own thing instead of the lesson you're teaching. He doesn't want to be there.

See, he doesn't want to be there. And he tried to derail the class when you weren't there. It speaks well for your students that they didn't let him.



I respect your attitude and desire to teach this guy, but I'd say that you're wasting your time, your student's time, and his time. You're not going to give him a black belt (and you shouldn't!) unless he meets your standard, and there's nothing to suggest that he'll ever choose to train to do so.

Maybe it's just the Bujinkan students here on MT, but it's my understanding that Kihon Happo is the key, base set of techniques in Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu. If the guy won't learn and practice it... why try to work anything else with him?

That's right.
He won't have anything from me except what he really needs!
I have never been one of those teacher who give out ranks so easily.
I'm more than sure that he will get tired of my classes very soon...

 

[Tez3]

I can't do much more than try to make him uderstand that he doesn't deserve and higher rank... teaching him what he really needs it's maybe the best way to get him "bored".

I'm not the owner of the Dojo and I'm not the one who get the money from the students so I can't tell him to stop attending my classes.

Maybe I know why he is training... He likes to be a MASTER, it's clear.
He often attend other classes around Italy with Neo Ninja groups and when he goes there he wears the black belt.

Oh dear! he's certainly asking for trouble isn't he! As people will treat him as a black belt he will get found out very quickly or if he goes to a club like mine .. a 'fighting club' he will end up getting hurt when sparring as we'd expect him to be able to defend himself. It's always dangerous to pose as a higher belt than you are!

 

[kosho]

I Would look at there stuff and if you feel that the person is not at that level then tell them. If that person is not willing to lisen and respect you and your Dojo and come into learn. Then have that person leave. You are the Boss. Do not lower your own standers to please others. It will weaken your other students thoughts aboue you... GOOD LUCK

Kosho

 

[morph4me]

I don't know what your testing protocols are, but might I suggest that you let him test for Shodan, and fail him when he can't meet your standards, then he will have to choose to either stay and learn or leave.

 

[Mizu]

I don't know what your testing protocols are, but might I suggest that you let him test for Shodan, and fail him when he can't meet your standards, then he will have to choose to either stay and learn or leave.

What I did is test him for 8th kyu last week in front of the class and he didn't pass the test. Maybe I won't see him again!

I know this person will cause trouble in the future. When he is in the Dojo there's always a bad atmosphere because none want to train with him.

I was looking for a gentle way to make him understand that my Dojo is not the right place for him.

I tried for 6 months to help him improoving but nothing works with him...

 

[jks9199]

What I did is test him for 8th kyu last week in front of the class and he didn't pass the test. Maybe I won't see him again!

I know this person will cause trouble in the future. When he is in the Dojo there's always a bad atmosphere because none want to train with him.

I was looking for a gentle way to make him understand that my Dojo is not the right place for him.

I tried for 6 months to help him improoving but nothing works with him...

Some folks don't take hints.

He sounds like the type that you'd have to hit with a board to give him a hint.

I gotta stick with my opinion; as one of my favorite writers would say, offer him "an invitation to the world." Send him on his way. Or at least offer him a simple ultimatum; do things your way, or find someone who'll teach him the way he wants.

 

[bljohnson]

You could leave him at his current rank until he is able to perform at your standards. You will be doing him a favor although I am sure he will not see it that way. To give some one rank that does not deserve it is basically hurting them. If he were to get in a serious conflict and had to use his taijutsu which stinks then he is in serious trouble. I also think he is very arrogant to ask to be tested that is not his call it is yours.

 

[Indagator]

well either that or let him be a paper tiger, but ultimately i believe the road you are taking is the more charitable one for his sake based on what you've said.