new kempo style?

[Mekosho]

Okay, recently, I discovered that my Sensei's once taught American Kempo before swtching to Kosho Ryu thru the SKSKI... My head instructor also has rank in Shaolin kempo and has studied under the likes of Cerio and Villari etc etc.

So I am wondering, is it possible to just teach one style at a time? I mean, are ther so many differences in our kempos that one could do that, or is the biggest differences just the names of the seperate styles?
Am I learning Kosho Ryu Kempo or is it more along the lines of Ed "thunderbolt" Mitose's Shaolamerikosho kempo lol!?

 

[JAMJTX]

along the lines of Ed "thunderbolt" Mitose's Shaolamerikosho kempo

This is a quite accurate assessment.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

the thing with kosho is this.......all the blocks, kicks, punches, strikes,kamae, and kansetsu waza are pretty much the same that you will find in any other japanese martial art. you can only do a gedan barai or mawashi geri so many ways. its all in the application and the way that kosho practitioners approach it. do kosho people move differently than other arts? i would say yes......but all of the basic elements are there, and that is what is most important.

 

[sksk]

I would have to agree, Kosho is as unique an artform as any of the other kempo/kenpo systems. One just has to look below the surface.

 

[KENPOJOE]

Okay, recently, I discovered that my Sensei's once taught American Kempo before swtching to Kosho Ryu thru the SKSKI... My head instructor also has rank in Shaolin kempo and has studied under the likes of Cerio and Villari etc etc.

So I am wondering, is it possible to just teach one style at a time? I mean, are ther so many differences in our kempos that one could do that, or is the biggest differences just the names of the seperate styles?
Am I learning Kosho Ryu Kempo or is it more along the lines of Ed "thunderbolt" Mitose's Shaolamerikosho kempo lol!?

Hi Folks!
In regards to your question about your instructor's different styles and whether your training is a conglomeration or "true and pure" kosho ryu kempo, Why not simply ask him?
I can only speak for myself, But I teach all my chosen arts under my studio as seperate curriculums, whether it be Ed Parker's American Kenpo,Karazenpo Goshinjutsu, praying mantis kung fu, David German's TAI,etc...
But I will mention how one does relate to the another style so as to cross reference material and educate my student. You are fortunate that your instructor has studied those styles and can pass his knowledge and experience ofthose given arts to you. As far as "pure kosho" iuse some of hanshi juchnick's videos as a guide or attend the gatherings that hanshi runs.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

 

[Sigung86]

Hi Folks!
... As far as "pure kosho" iuse some of hanshi juchnick's videos as a guide or attend the gatherings that hanshi runs.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

Don't shoot the messenger, but I believe I read somewhere that hanshi juchnick used to was Tracy's Karate, and that his "pure kosho" has a definite Tracyish spin and flavor. Joe? I would most definitely defer to your wisdom here. :asian:

 

[Mekosho]

First off, thanks for all the input on this subject...

secondly, I never thought for a second I had been learning "pure" Kosho by any stretch of the imagination. The question I am wondering however is this...just how pure (not that it matters if what is taught works) is ANY art out there anymore? I mean, most instructors nowadays hold rank in 2,3, even 4 or more different styles, is it actually possible to say "okay class, I have shown you a kempo tech. now I will show you a shotokan tech...I mean, if i am learning a shotokan tech in a kempo class, would it not be a kempo tech now...
Thing is, I hear many debates on the practicality on this style over that style, the effectiveness of that style over this style, I mean, with all the mix in the pot anymore, I just cannot fathom the fact that so many still claim theres is superior...I feel nowadays, more so than in the past, that it is the curriculum+the method of teaching style+the individual drive that makes anyone, not any system, superior over another...
Anyways, again, thanks for your thoughts on this,
Robb

 

[BlackCatBonz]

First off, thanks for all the input on this subject...

secondly,
1. I never thought for a second I had been learning "pure" Kosho by any stretch of the imagination.
2.The question I am wondering however is this...just how pure (not that it matters if what is taught works) is ANY art out there anymore? I mean, most instructors nowadays hold rank in 2,3, even 4 or more different styles, is it actually possible to say "okay class, I have shown you a kempo tech. now I will show you a shotokan tech..
.3.I mean, if i am learning a shotokan tech in a kempo class, would it not be a kempo tech now...
Thing is, I hear many debates on the practicality on this style over that style, the effectiveness of that style over this style, I mean, with all the mix in the pot anymore, I just cannot fathom the fact that so many still claim theres is superior..
4.I feel nowadays, more so than in the past, that it is the curriculum+the method of teaching style+the individual drive that makes anyone, not any system, superior over another...
Anyways, again, thanks for your thoughts on this,
Robb

1. the question of kosho being pure is a difficult one. you first have to ask yourself, "what is pure kosho?"
if you're doing the stuff that makes it kosho.....then you're doing pure kosho. kosho has nothing to do woth techniques. kosho is about understanding and applying principles. i dont know how long you have been studying kosho for now, but if you have been doing it for any length of time you should be familiar with the basics of the system. you should be familiar with the octagon,escaping, 12-6-3, always move twice-go back to where you were last.....things of that nature. in japanese martial arts everyone does the same type of strikes and kicks and joint locks......no surprise there. if you're doing kosho, its all in how you apply these things from a self defense standpoint.
i dont know if what i do is pure kosho from mitose's point of view. what i do know is, i approach my training with the principles i have been taught in kosho ryu.

2. any art that is out there now could not be considered a pure art, technically speaking. every teacher adds his own flavour, whether conscious of it or not. can the spirit of the art remain pure? i think it can.........but that is up to the individual. Ueshiba said when i die, aikido dies with me (im not sure if thats the exact quote, but its similar), which means that aikido was his art......he could try to pass on his knowledge as best he could, but the true essence of aikido was inside of him. it is the job of the students who pass on aikido to best pass on the essence, the kokoro, of aikido, that makes aikido what it is............this is just an example.

3. if you are learning a shotokan technique in class.......its just a technique from the point of view of a shotokan player, that is if you are learning a "pure" shotokan technique. But, you could take the same, lets say gedan barai, oi-zuki combination and approach it from a kosho standpoint......what have you got? we have the same movements.....its all in the approach.

4. i dont think this is just nowadays........every system has had their exceptional teachers and fighters. just because choki motobu was a great fighter, does not mean that everyone in his system is going to be a great fighter. a person requires desire, perserverance, and will in order to succeed.

dont worry about the small stuff

 

[Kosho-Monk]

every teacher adds his own flavour, whether conscious of it or not. can the spirit of the art remain pure? i think it can.........but that is up to the individual.

Good comment.

I think this is important for any art to survive. If we simply become a copy of something, then over time, it will fade out. Just like if you copy a picture, then copy the copy, then copy the copy of the copy........ soon you will not be able to see the picture at all.

Become your own original. Make your students become their own originals. The "pictures" will look similar but will not be exact. IMO, if you're a good teacher, your top students will eventually become better than you. If they don't, you're not teaching very well and your art will die.




Also, for all,

I think all this talk about "traditional arts" and/or "pure arts" being the best is crap. If after studying something for 20-30-40 years, you cannot improve on what you've learned, then you're a poor student. Your sensei is not a god with all the knowledge of the Universe within. And you will not raise to the level of sainthood by studying from him/her. All arts are wonderful. Most practitioners simply suck. That's life. And are they legit? Sure. Most are legitimately teaching a great art in a crappy way. And I bet most don't even know how crappy they are. Instead of saying "you suck" to those people, go out and teach them. Lead by example.

And on another note: It doesn't matter if you train in a "real" dojo or a garage dojo, just as long as you're training.


Peace,
John Evans

 

[BlackCatBonz]

Good comment.

I think this is important for any art to survive. If we simply become a copy of something, then over time, it will fade out. Just like if you copy a picture, then copy the copy, then copy the copy of the copy........ soon you will not be able to see the picture at all.

Become your own original. Make your students become their own originals. The "pictures" will look similar but will not be exact. IMO, if you're a good teacher, your top students will eventually become better than you. If they don't, you're not teaching very well and your art will die.




Also, for all,

I think all this talk about "traditional arts" and/or "pure arts" being the best is crap. If after studying something for 20-30-40 years, you cannot improve on what you've learned, then you're a poor student. Your sensei is not a god with all the knowledge of the Universe within. And you will not raise to the level of sainthood by studying from him/her. All arts are wonderful. Most practitioners simply suck. That's life. And are they legit? Sure. Most are legitimately teaching a great art in a crappy way. And I bet most don't even know how crappy they are. Instead of saying "you suck" to those people, go out and teach them. Lead by example.

And on another note: It doesn't matter if you train in a "real" dojo or a garage dojo, just as long as you're training.


Peace,
John Evans

couldnt have said it better myself!

 

[Mekosho]

thanks all...

 

[eyebeams]

I would have to agree, Kosho is as unique an artform as any of the other kempo/kenpo systems. One just has to look below the surface.

Look too far below the surface, and you are inventing, and not observing what the art actually has. Sometimes these inventions work though, so it's not all bad.

 

[sksk]

Every tradtional art started with a question that needed a answer, and some were brave enough to look beyond what was right in front of them

 

[lonekimono10]

Don't shoot the messenger, but I believe I read somewhere that hanshi juchnick used to was Tracy's Karate, and that his "pure kosho" has a definite Tracyish spin and flavor. Joe? I would most definitely defer to your wisdom here. :asian:

He's knows parker kenpo also, i was with him up in pottsvills pa and we going back and forth with the parker tecq's and tracy's, i think that HANSHI is a great person, a real down to earth guy and a good friend.

 

[Kosho-Monk]

and some were brave enough to look beyond what was right in front of them

Exactly, George. This is what we (me, you, others) learn to do in Kosho... look beyond what is obvious. When practitioners look deeper into what they're doing, they find so much more. It's always been there, so they cannot say it's new. Rather one should simply realize that they have moved a little bit further along the path of understanding.

I hope you're well.


-John Evans

 

[Kosho-Monk]

I believe I read somewhere that hanshi juchnick used to was Tracy's Karate

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Bruce Juchnik Hanshi knows a lot more than most people realize. Go to the Gathering in Reno this year. (Oct. 1st and 2nd) and see for yourselves. Or go to one of his seminars. The man, my teacher, is simply one of the best. Period.

Peace!


-John Evans

 

[sksk]

How are you John, hope to see you in Reno.

George

P.S. Hanshi's background, before meeting Mitose Sensei was Tang soo do
Serrada Escrima (Angel Cabales) and Tracy's Kenpo

Hope that helps

 

[Kosho-Monk]

How are you John, hope to see you in Reno.

George

Hi George,

Unfortunately due to a serious illness I cannot make it. Hanshi knows all about it so I won't go into details here. I'm hopeful the doctors will figure out what's going on a I'll be back on feet again soon.

Have a great time in Reno. I know it will be nothing less than spectacular.


Take care,
John


PS. Didn't Hanshi have some kung fu teacher(s) as well?

 

[sksk]

Hi John sorry to hear that, if there is any thing i can do on my end just ask. i believe that Hanshi trained with brendan lai in northen mantis, and also he did white crane and was with Remy Presas in modern arnis and some hungarian saber fighting.


please pardon the spelling

 

[lonekimono10]

How are you John, hope to see you in Reno.

George

P.S. Hanshi's background, before meeting Mitose Sensei was Tang soo do
Serrada Escrima (Angel Cabales) and Tracy's Kenpo

Hope that helps

all i will say is that next time you are with him ask him to do long 4, see what happens, and john hope all will be well, i will say a pray.