New Aikido invented for self-defence by Ljubomir Vračarević

[Drose427]

As far as the Turkish wrestler goes. He could have been just better. My coach does that to the majority bjj black belts he encounters his coach demolishes every open grappling tournament he enters. They are sneakily phenomenal grapplers. But both present as these goobers Who look like they have walked off the street.

Well, in the video its fairly obvious that was an instructional demo, not a realistic match.

 

[K-man]

Well, in the video its fairly obvious that was an instructional demo, not a realistic match.

How do you figure that? Surely not because the students were wildly applauding their fellow student being rolled. He might have been a bully.

 

[Tez3]

As far as the Turkish wrestler goes. He could have been just better. My coach does that to the majority bjj black belts he encounters his coach demolishes every open grappling tournament he enters. They are sneakily phenomenal grapplers. But both present as these goobers Who look like they have walked off the street.

You do know what was going on in that video right?

 

[drop bear]

You do know what was going on in that video right?

Looked like a bit of ad hoc sparring during a demo.

 

[Tez3]

Ad hoc? 'for one purpose only'
I don't think you do understand what the video was about.

 

[Hanzou]

You bag every other style. Aikido is not a style suited for sport and Tomiki aikido is not typical of Aikido. When you look at the rules of competition you would see why I think it's not particularly useful unless you want to compete with other like minded people. You won't see Aikido in a NHB competition. We don't train for that.

Isn't that a cop out though? What makes Aikido unsuitable for fighting against an aggressive opponent? If you're fighting someone on the street, they're going to be swinging on you similar to how a boxer or MMA fighter would.

Mate, you claim to be a Shodan in your karate. Does that make you an advanced student? Not from your understanding of karate that you have demonstrated here.

Considering that mat the time of my departure I was a step away from instructor rank, yes I would consider myself advanced.

I have trained with a lot of high ranked Aikidoka and very few of them are at a level where their techniques are effective. Sure they will probably work against untrained people and that is all most people want. That means nothing if that is the training that keeps them fit and makes them happy. For me, I don't train that way and my students keep me honest. If I can't make my techniques work I'm out of business. My Krav guys come from all areas of the MAs. At present they represent karate, Muay Thai, MMA, BJJ and boxing as well as those just off the street. Then, if you came to my aikido class you wouldn't see me in a hakama either. It takes too long to pack away after training. Then again, I make no claims about being an advanced student.

That's great. I don't really see what any of that has to do with the lack of Aikidoka fighting against non-compliant opponents from other styles. This situation tends to facilitate schools such as the one in the OP.

Maybe Bas Rutten can shine some light on this phenomenon;

 

[Spinedoc]

Isn't that a cop out though? What makes Aikido unsuitable for fighting against an aggressive opponent? If you're fighting someone on the street, they're going to be swinging on you similar to how a boxer or MMA fighter would.



Considering that mat the time of my departure I was a step away from instructor rank, yes I would consider myself advanced.



That's great. I don't really see what any of that has to do with the lack of Aikidoka fighting against non-compliant opponents from other styles. This situation tends to facilitate schools such as the one in the OP.

Maybe Bas Rutten can shine some light on this phenomenon;

Well, for starters, one mistake would be to assume that anyone in Aikido cares anything about what Bas Rutten says. To be honest, I didn't even know who he was and had to google him. Seems like a blowhard to me, but eh? Who knows....

Aikido is non competitive and takes years, IMO 7 or more, until you get really adept enough to use it in violent encounters. By that time, how many aikidoka who have been training in a non competitive format are going to be willing to then engage in competition?

Also, have you been in any street fights? I only ask, because I was in multiple fights back in my late teens and early 20's. I never saw anyone swing at me like an MMA fighter or boxer would. Most were undisciplined and swung wildly hoping to god that they hit something. I never saw anyone guard with their hands up...if they did, they dropped them the second they went in for a swing! I was also in the military and was in more than a few altercations in the military (drunken sailor things on the weekends), I never saw anyone fight like they did in a boxing match with the exception of one person......and he was the base boxing champ, he also just about knocked my *** out and I ended up with 3 stitches above my right eye because of him.

Here's the thing with Aikido. IMO, Aikido only works with a committed attack, if someone is just jabbing at you, and not committing to an attack, well....personally I would just step back and let them either commit or not, but you're not going to be able to use Aikido until they commit.

Personally, I hope I never fight again, and would never go looking for fights to "prove" that my Aikido works, and I would also argue that any ridiculous match in a ring is hardly proof of ANY martial arts effectiveness for fighting.

I'm a healthcare practitioner and researcher. There is a significant danger in extrapolating results from one setting to another. IE; Hyaluronic acid injections work great in the treatment of mild to moderate knee OA, ergo, hyaluronic acid injections work great in the treatment of mild to moderate OA everywhere in the body.....(they don't)....Or, X medication works great for the treatment of hypertension in patients with renal artery stenosis, ergo X medication works great in the treatment of all types of hypertension.....

Anytime a researcher or physician tries to make these claims, they are decidedly derided in the academic community for making errors in assumption and faulty conclusions.

It's the same with this. Making those sorts of extrapolations is akin the "No True Scotsman" type of logical fallacy. You can't make the conclusions that I keep seeing on this board with regard to MMA and MA effectiveness.

All you can conclude is that Martial Arts that are represented well and work well within the MMA context are well suited to MMA. THAT'S IT.....You can't take it any further without committing a whole bunch of errors of assumption.

 

[Tez3]

Seems like a blowhard to me, but eh?

To be honest he's not but what happens is that certain people take what he says out of context to mean what they want it to mean. They ignore anything he says about traditional styles that they don't agree with, his name gets bandied around a lot and it does damage his reputation. Makes people think he's just a muscle bound MMA fighter when he actually does have a lot of experience in out of MMA fights and self defence.

 

[Hanzou]

All you can conclude is that Martial Arts that are represented well and work well within the MMA context are well suited to MMA. THAT'S IT.....You can't take it any further without committing a whole bunch of errors of assumption.

Well that's the question; What makes Aikido unsuited for MMA outside of the personal desires of its exponents? Lack of aggressiveness? Steven Segal's style of Akido is quite aggressive, but you don't see any of his students in MMA either.

 

[Tez3]

I do MMA, we train fighters and do all the usual things one associates with MMA. Our fighters don't worry about what styles are considered 'suitable' for MMA and what aren't. They are competitive people ( several of them are quite non aggressive btw) who enjoy what they do, they don't criticise others who do others styles, they'll have a look to see if there's anything they can use but it doesn't bother them that others train stuff they don't This constant badgering on here about MMA is just going to make people think that all MMAers are mongs who only care about bad mouthing other styles. I resent that. So far we've had interruptions on various style's threads telling us that WC, Aikido, Aikido and TKD are all useless because it's not used in MMA. Apart from the fact that's not true why does it matter when people obviously enjoy their training, they don't want to compete and are happy with their style. As our MMA guys say 'STFU and train', leave people to do what they do. Crack on Aikido people, not all MMAers criticise everything others do, in fact a lot of us appreciate different styles even if we don't do them.

 

[Drose427]

I do MMA, we train fighters and do all the usual things one associates with MMA. Our fighters don't worry about what styles are considered 'suitable' for MMA and what aren't. They are competitive people ( several of them are quite non aggressive btw) who enjoy what they do, they don't criticise others who do others styles, they'll have a look to see if there's anything they can use but it doesn't bother them that others train stuff they don't This constant badgering on here about MMA is just going to make people think that all MMAers are mongs who only care about bad mouthing other styles. I resent that. So far we've had interruptions on various style's threads telling us that WC, Aikido, Aikido and TKD are all useless because it's not used in MMA. Apart from the fact that's not true why does it matter when people obviously enjoy their training, they don't want to compete and are happy with their style. As our MMA guys say 'STFU and train', leave people to do what they do. Crack on Aikido people, not all MMAers criticise everything others do, in fact a lot of us appreciate different styles even if we don't do them.

This is my experience as well. I've never met someone who trains and competes in MMA or Kickboxing bash TMAS like some folks here.

They don't really care what the popular opinion of it is, they just wanna train it and find something that they feel they can use personally.

A lot of my MMA buddies have asked me to teach them our roundhouse and front kick because of our high knee raise. The chambers the same in all our kicks. But, the chamber comes up in the opponents blindspot if they arent too far away.

They get tired of their Muay Thai roundhouses being read and bocked so easily, or the rigidity of the kick, and wanna mix in other ways of kicking.


There's a reason some of the best MMA guys tend to have several Black Belts.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I do MMA, we train fighters and do all the usual things one associates with MMA. Our fighters don't worry about what styles are considered 'suitable' for MMA and what aren't. They are competitive people ( several of them are quite non aggressive btw) who enjoy what they do, they don't criticise others who do others styles, they'll have a look to see if there's anything they can use but it doesn't bother them that others train stuff they don't This constant badgering on here about MMA is just going to make people think that all MMAers are mongs who only care about bad mouthing other styles. I resent that. So far we've had interruptions on various style's threads telling us that WC, Aikido, Aikido and TKD are all useless because it's not used in MMA. Apart from the fact that's not true why does it matter when people obviously enjoy their training, they don't want to compete and are happy with their style. As our MMA guys say 'STFU and train', leave people to do what they do. Crack on Aikido people, not all MMAers criticise everything others do, in fact a lot of us appreciate different styles even if we don't do them.

This is my experience as well. I've never met someone who trains and competes in MMA or Kickboxing bash TMAS like some folks here.

They don't really care what the popular opinion of it is, they just wanna train it and find something that they feel they can use personally.

A lot of my MMA buddies have asked me to teach them our roundhouse and front kick because of our high knee raise. The chambers the same in all our kicks. But, the chamber comes up in the opponents blindspot if they arent too far away.

They get tired of their Muay Thai roundhouses being read and bocked so easily, or the rigidity of the kick, and wanna mix in other ways of kicking.


There's a reason some of the best MMA guys tend to have several Black Belts.

I am a TCMA guy and I agree, I have had long conversation with MMA guys about taijiquan and qigong because ultimately what they are looking for is a way to help them win their next match. Even talked with an MMA guy who was big on training qigong because he felt it help him relax before, during and after a match. Not once has any "real" MMA person I talked with ever bad mouthed or criticized TMA.

 

[K-man]

I think this thread has gone the way of the rest. Will the last person please flush. Thanks guys you've done it again.

 

[Tez3]

We've taken some of the MMA fighters along with us on seminars where there's been different styles of martial arts, one seminar had instructors teaching Bo, the fighters enjoyed that as much as the rest of us even though you can't use weapons in the cage lol. Those who do MMA are perfectly capable of defending themselves outside the cage, they can 'switch off' the rules and can forget about having a ref but the fighters I know (and I know many,) enjoy learning any techniques that is viable either for just SD or that can also be used in competition so while they do concentrate on their own thing they are appreciative of techniques from Aikido and other styles. One of the things about being a good MMA fighter is having an inquisitive mind.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I think this thread has gone the way of the rest. Will the last person please flush. Thanks guys you've done it again.

What did I do?

 

[Tez3]

What did I do?

Not you, the usual suspects.

 

[Hanzou]

I do MMA, we train fighters and do all the usual things one associates with MMA. Our fighters don't worry about what styles are considered 'suitable' for MMA and what aren't. They are competitive people ( several of them are quite non aggressive btw) who enjoy what they do, they don't criticise others who do others styles, they'll have a look to see if there's anything they can use but it doesn't bother them that others train stuff they don't This constant badgering on here about MMA is just going to make people think that all MMAers are mongs who only care about bad mouthing other styles. I resent that. So far we've had interruptions on various style's threads telling us that WC, Aikido, Aikido and TKD are all useless because it's not used in MMA. Apart from the fact that's not true why does it matter when people obviously enjoy their training, they don't want to compete and are happy with their style. As our MMA guys say 'STFU and train', leave people to do what they do. Crack on Aikido people, not all MMAers criticise everything others do, in fact a lot of us appreciate different styles even if we don't do them.

Again, where's the bad mouthing? I'm simply asking a question because I've noticed a distinct lack of Aikido presence in MMA. If Aikido can stop a guy from caving your face in, why can't it do the same thing in a cage or ring?

 

[Tez3]

Again, where's the bad mouthing? I'm simply asking a question because I've noticed a distinct lack of Aikido presence in MMA. If Aikido can stop a guy from caving your face in, why can't it do the same thing in a cage or ring?

Disingenuous reply. If this were a football game (soccer) you'd be there shrugging telling the ref you didn't do anything as the player you brought down was writhing on the floor in pain.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Thanks for that! A couple of years ago I was searching for good clips of Toshu Randori but not having much luck. I guess some have been added in this last year or so. Cool match!

Yeah, even that looks iffy to me. I would need to see Aikido out of its element, going up against a completely different style.

I'm simply saying that it would be more interesting to see Aikido being utilized against an opponent that isn't doing Aikido. Preferably in a NHB competition.

I wonder if the extreme sweatiness of the fighters in MMA competition might make it harder to apply some of these techniques.

It would be interesting to see a BJJ competitor who was also proficient in Tomiki Aikido slip in some of these techniques in a grappling match. Unfortunately, it's not one of the more widely practiced forms of Aikido so there probably aren't that many people out there with the right skill set.

Competition Aikido is just that .. competition Aikido. It was never sanctioned by Ueshiba and to me it has no place.

To each their own. If I had good Tomiki Aikido instruction available to me, I would definitely check it out.

Quite understandable. It took me over seven years to be able to do it against a non compliant person.

Based on my own experience reaching proficiency (or not) in various skills, I bet I would reach the point fo being able to apply that against a non-compliant person much quicker if I trained like the Tomiki guys than if I trained like most of the other Aikido practitioners I've watched training.

 

[Tez3]

I wonder if the extreme sweatiness of the fighters in MMA competition might make it harder to apply some of these techniques.

It could be but also MMA fighters are encouraged to do 'entertaining' techniques, ones that get the crowd going. Spectators don't pay a lot of money to watch extremely short fights, they want to be entertained with lots of punching and kicking, give and take. Many MMA fans still don't get the ground work and don't like too much of it, they shout to have the fighters stood up if they thinking it's boring which is when the fighters are working for position etc but it doesn't look like they are doing much. Fights that take place mainly on the ground, good BJJ or wrestling, aren't appreciated much either, sad to say many 'fans' want to see fighters going toe to toe, Aikido doesn't deliver that.