National flags in class

[IcemanSK]

In your dojang, do you have a flag of your country & Korea? Just your country? Just Korea? None at all?

In my school, I have both the Korean & US flags. We bow to show respect to both countries.

I know that this can be a hot button issue for some. I'm not looking to start something. I'm just curious as to whether this is a part of something that's a part of your dojang.

 

[terryl965]

We have both, just like ma instructed did I am just too old because I still believe in tradition.

 

[NPTKD]

Its tradition and respectful to have both as long as the American flag is first! ( Or your countries) I know alot of school with Korean masters don't do that and even thier patches have the Korean flag before the American flag.

 

[Jphtkd]

I hang the Korean, US, Kukkiwon, and Moo duk kwan flags in my dojang. In fact, I got into a very heated argument with Mike Friello at the 2006 AAU nationals because they only hung an american flag during the opening ceremonies. Don't get me wrong, I am a die hard patriot, and I love my country. I think we should be faithful above all else to our own nation, but we should also show respect to our roots and the country that created and proliferated our style. Without roots and tradition, we are just a sport, no better than t-ball or soccer.

 

[Laurentkd]

We have both flags up, and I think Jphtkd summed up my thoughts on it exactly.
We also have an American flag patch on the right arm and a Korean flag on our left. Well, at least most of us do- we have one Aussie at our school, and he wears an Australian flag on his right arm instead.

 

[NPTKD]

I agree and have them al hanging in my dojang. But so people don't know proper flag etiquette.

 

[bluekey88]

We have both US and Korean flags at the front of the gym, though we only salute the US flag at the start of class. Additionally we have the PA state flag and the Japanese flag (we teach some Shotokan stuff after 1st dan) on the side of the gym as well as small WTF and Kukkiwon banners at the back of the gym.

Peace,
Erik

 

[Miles]

We have the National flags of the arts taught at our school (Philipines/Brazil/Japan/Korea) though the US flag is most prominent. In addition, we have the Chung Do Kwan flag and a Kukkiwon flag (the latter needs to be hung up though).

 

[terryl965]

I hang the Korean, US, Kukkiwon, and Moo duk kwan flags in my dojang. In fact, I got into a very heated argument with Mike Friello at the 2006 AAU nationals because they only hung an american flag during the opening ceremonies. Don't get me wrong, I am a die hard patriot, and I love my country. I think we should be faithful above all else to our own nation, but we should also show respect to our roots and the country that created and proliferated our style. Without roots and tradition, we are just a sport, no better than t-ball or soccer.

I have had the same agruments with Mike, by the way are you going to National this year?

 

[Jphtkd]

I have had the same agruments with Mike, by the way are you going to National this year?

Yes sir I surely will. They are in Ft. Lauderdale, I live about 30 min. north in Boca Raton. I have 4 competitors participating this year. Will you be there as well?

 

[Lord-Humongous]

We don't hang any flags at my dojang.

 

[tellner]

Why have them at all?

When I go to a cooking class there aren't any flags.
When I go to the gym there aren't any flags.
When I go to the pub to have a beer and listen to music there aren't any flags.
There aren't flags where I work or pretty much any of the leisure activities I have time for.

But for some bizarre reason half the places that teach you to hit people for fun put not just their own but some foreign government's banner up on the wall.

It realy doesn't make any sense.

 

[Jphtkd]

Why have them at all?

When I go to a cooking class there aren't any flags.
When I go to the gym there aren't any flags.
When I go to the pub to have a beer and listen to music there aren't any flags.
There aren't flags where I work or pretty much any of the leisure activities I have time for.

But for some bizarre reason half the places that teach you to hit people for fun put not just their own but some foreign government's banner up on the wall.

It realy doesn't make any sense.

Places that "teach you to hit people for fun", don't hang flags up. If you want to learn a martial art, with honor, tradition, and roots, then they hang flags on the wall as a sign of loyalty and respect. Have fun at the gym and your cooking class lol.

 

[Carol]

Places that "teach you to hit people for fun", don't hang flags up.

Huh??

If you want to learn a martial art, with honor, tradition, and roots, then they hang flags on the wall as a sign of loyalty and respect. Have fun at the gym and your cooking class lol.

Loyalty and respect to whom? Many of the martial arts places where I have visited do not display the American flag correctly if hung, nor do they display the American flag correctly if worn on the uniform (if worn on the right arm, then the blue field must be forward), and salutes to the American flag are not done with headgear off and hand over the heart, but rather with some other gesture (bowing, etc) and no mind to bandanas, du-rags, etc.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Not to be a killjoy, but if one wants to observe proper flag etiquette in the USA, the US flag is not to be sewn onto clothing.

http://www.usflag.org/flagetiquette.html

The flag should not be used as part of a costume or athletic uniform, except that a flag patch may be used on the uniform of military personnel, fireman, policeman and members of patriotic organizations.

http://www.suvcw.org/flag.htm

U.S. Flag Code (4 US Code 1)
Sec. 8. - Respect for flag
(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

I realize people are trying to be respectful and patriotic, but technically, this is a no-no.

 

[Wasabinyc]

Also somewhat related to this is, how important really is it to learn the Korean language when taking tae kwon do? For instance, counting in Korean?

 

[tellner]

Places that "teach you to hit people for fun", don't hang flags up. If you want to learn a martial art, with honor, tradition, and roots, then they hang flags on the wall as a sign of loyalty and respect. Have fun at the gym and your cooking class lol.

Say what?

You practice Tae Kwon Do. Tae Kwon Do is Japanese Karate with the serial numbers filed off, some new jargon, reworked techniques, a new costume and an ever-changing packet of lies that passes for "history". Japanese Karate is Funakoshi's way of popularizing his reworked Okinawa Te in a way that wouldn't offend the horribly racist prejudices of his market. Okinawa Te is a combination of local boxing with bits and pieces of Chinese boxing. And so on.

Your "tradition" and "roots" are mostly imaginary. What you have is a mild case of brainwashing that has convinced you your hobby has some sort of Cosmic significance. You have been taught that being in your club, wearing funny clothes - a Korean rebranding of Funakoshi's reworking of Kano's wrestling gear - speaking a few words of a foreign language badly and engaging in consensual dominance/submission rituals with people wearing slightly different costumes makes you special, something different than the common herd.

You're welcome to those beliefs, but for the love of Cthulhu try to recognize them for what they are. They are a combination of operant conditioning and appeals to your ego. They are designed to make you identify with a group, transfer that group loyalty to a quasi-governmental body in another country and unthinkingly obey your boxing coach.

Respect? Honor? Don't bother regurgitating the dojo kun. Define them using clear simple language which an intelligent educated person can understand. Then explain how they require the incorrect display of a couple of flags.

For myself, I practice a martial art which I enjoy for a variety of reasons. I have a personal ethical code which serves quite well, thank you very much. I do not need a transplant from a sports governing body. Everyone is entitled to basic human respect as a default. It may be gained or lost as appropriate.

 

[Jphtkd]

Most all of the arts were intended as a way of life, and yes in the recent past some martial arts organizations have abandoned any tradition in favor of converting to a sport. Regardless of when or where the art originated, showing respect to your country by hanging the flag in your school, and that of the country of origin for whatever style you practice, should not be looked down upon. As far as adorning your uniform with flags and patches, that differs from school to school. Maintaining those ties to the origin of your art in my opinion is the least you can do for those who dedicated a life time of training to pass them down to future gererations. For you it may just be a hobby. It is not that way for everyone, and is presumptuous to make that generalization.

 

[Laurentkd]

Why have them at all?

When I go to a cooking class there aren't any flags.
When I go to the gym there aren't any flags.
When I go to the pub to have a beer and listen to music there aren't any flags.
There aren't flags where I work or pretty much any of the leisure activities I have time for.

But for some bizarre reason half the places that teach you to hit people for fun put not just their own but some foreign government's banner up on the wall.

It realy doesn't make any sense.

I understand your point, but nearly every athletic event does have at least the national flag hanging/flying. Every high school game of any sport I have gone to, let alone professional, does the national anthem. So, while there is a lot of foreign elements added in with Martial arts (and the reasons why or why not to include them can be argued), a show of patriotism in an athletic environment such as a martial arts school seems to be in line with other "sports".

 

[tellner]

The custom of manipulating religous and national symbols when people play games still strikes me as weird and a little ridiculous. Looked at from a distance the logic is obvious. We want our little club's mana to increase by taking on the ju-ju of the tribe, the nation and the Ultimate Reality that drives the Universe. By making special sounds and waving emotionally significant colored items we send ourselves into a fantasy state where moving a ball in a particular way narratively becomes the defense of our tribe and the domination of its enemies.

It's even worse with spectator sports. You could make a case that adding the emotional foo-fra inspires people to work harder so they will perform the ritualized motions better than the other group of competitors. But the audience is a bunch of guys sitting on their butts watching someone else sweat. The only purpose is an exercise in primitive magic designed to gull the spectators into the delusion that their presence turns them into some sort of pathetic warriors-by-proxy and thereby be willing to fork over more money to the owner of the franchise in one way or another.

Unless you're so caught up in the fantasy that you've completely taken leave of your senses it's pretty damned ridiculous. The people who get caught up in it look like a bunch of dupes.