Narrative vs. Authenticity

[JowGaWolf]

What culture do feel Appledog is from ?

He already told us.

Appledog seems to be from a culture that puts a high value on lineage as form of Gatekeeping and Authenticity. This means only certain people have the right to pass legitimate knowledge.

Appledog's current and past comments seem to be influenced by a Confucian world view. Appledog speaks of "Martial virtue" and has a very traditional mindset about martial arts and other things. Appledog has a distrust that seems to fit well with a traditional mindset of being hesitant to adopt new ways. The distrust is even to the point where he mentions that it's possible that I may be bot.

Appledog also has a strong suspicion of the identity of others which means that it's a big issue where he is. The environment that Appledog is in most likely has an unusual high number of incidents where the real source of knowledge is high jacked by others who position themselves as quality source for that knowledge while the origins get ignored. As a result many people are faking expertise without actually having any mastery of what they claim (Performative Expertise).

Appledog is definitely not in the US, because US culture is currently the opposite of that. "You don't need school, and the Experts aren't always more knowledgeable than the non experts.) The Performative Expertise must be something that extends beyond Martial Arts and is probably highly visible in non-martial arts environments. The US has the youtube expert environment on the screen, but for Appledog it's probably like youtube in real life and real time. You walk out and there it is at every turn.

The only thing that I can think of as causing such a culture to exist is a highly competitive culture reward structures are shaped by visibility (hence the beauty filters) but would also extend beyond that.

This is the type of culture that I think Appledog is in. In General people don't complain about things that normally don't have to deal with.

 

[windwalker099]

Appledog seems to be from a culture that puts a high value on lineage as form of Gatekeeping and Authenticity. This means only certain people have the right to pass legitimate knowledge.

You have not answered the question,,,no need to if you don't want to..

Appledog is definitely not in the US, because US culture is currently the opposite of that.

It's obvious he is not in the US. The taiwan flag shows up on his avatar .

Living within a culture does not always mean one adopts or is part of it...Having been and lived in other countries and have met many expats some maintain their own culture within the culture that they live in..

 

[Flying Crane]

Same with us, t shirts.

Yeah. Tee-shirts. We don’t bother with pants.

 

[Flying Crane]

I’m still trying to understand why we want Ai to have the answers. Martial arts has a whole lot of subtlety. I can’t imagine Ai will ever get the nuances correct. Why do we think it should? Why would we want to look to Ai for these answers, rather than to the people who have put in the time and effort to develop this body of skills and knowledge? It sounds like Ai is a regurgitation tool. I would rather have a conversation with a real person. Just my opinion.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Appledog's current and past comments seem to be influenced by a Confucian world view.

Many Chinese are influenced by Li Bai 李白 world view 纵死侠骨香，不惭世上英 “Even in death, the heroic bones emit fragrance; one need not feel ashamed before the world’s heroes.”

I still remember my long fist teacher in Taiwan used to say, "I will beat you up if you

1. don't have a good reason to fight but you fight.
2. have a good reason to fight but you don't fight."

2 (侠 hero) is the opposite of the "de-escalation" that some people love to talk about. Even today, I still have not met a single US MA instructor who mention 2 (侠 hero) to his students.

I do believe the "culture" make a big difference in MA training. Some people may understand "One should not fight without a good reason". Some people may not understand "One should fight if there is a good reason". When one helps good to fight against evil, he has to take the risk of death.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Yeah. Tee-shirts. We don’t bother with pants.

Down with pants! Up with Skirts!

 

[JowGaWolf]

Living within a culture does not always mean one adopts or is part of it...Having been and lived in other countries and have met many expats some maintain their own culture within the culture that they live in..

The way that I look at culture is that it affects a person regardless of adoption of it. If you are in the area of it then it will affect you. No adoption required. Appledog doesn't have to adopt the culture of Ai Misue in order to be affected by it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

It's obvious he is not in the US. The taiwan flag shows up on his avatar .

When I think of Culture. I really don't think of Country because there are many different cultures within a country. I only mentioned the US for contrast of how different things can be from country to country.

I don't know enough about the multiple cultures within China, Korea, Japan, or other countries, beyond the ones that I'm familiar with. And even then the ones that I'm familiar with are the general population ones. That bleed into aspects of life like entertainment and lifestyle.

 

[windwalker099]

The way that I look at culture is that it affects a person regardless of adoption of it. If you are in the area of it then it will affect you. No adoption required. Appledog doesn't have to adopt the culture of Ai Misue in order to be affected by it.

nteresting — you still haven’t answered the question. Was there a point?
You suggested his culture might shape how he views AI, but you’ve never said outright what culture you think that is.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I still have not met a single US MA instructor who mention 2 (侠 hero) to his students.

In the US our concept of Hero doesn't come from Martial arts. It comes from other outlets and even then, Hero in the U.S. may not mean the same as Hero in China

I do believe the "culture" make a big difference in MA training. Some people may understand "One should not fight without a good reason". Some people may not understand "One should fight if there is a good reason". When one helps good to fight against evil, he has to take the risk of death.

I don't know anyone who can escape the effects of different cultures. We would have to be in an isolated place in the world to not be influenced in one way or another. The action of accepting or resisting a culture will shape how we navigate our environment.

A good example is Sagging Pants. Most people are either for or against it. Very few will say "It doesn't affect me."

 

[windwalker099]

I do believe the "culture" make a big difference in MA training. Some people may understand "One should not fight without a good reason". Some people may not understand "One should fight if there is a good reason". When one helps good to fight against evil, he has to take the risk of death.

Very correct — the culture one belongs to, consciously or not, shapes how they view things and the actions they take (or don’t) in life. I’d asked about this in relation to Appledog, since some of his viewpoints were attributed to “his” culture — but without the culture being named.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Was there a point?
You suggested his culture might shape how he views AI, but you’ve never said outright what culture you think that is.

I described the culture. Not all cultures have a name to put to it. Not all cultures have an ethnicity that claims it.

If you are expecting me to say Asian culture's, then I won't. Not all Asian countries are the same and not all have the same culture. As a result, they often see the same "Object or Subject" totally different.

The moment the differences aren't acknowledged is the same moment the stereotypes start to come out.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Not all Asian countries are the same and not all have the same culture.

This is true. Chinese culture contains many different views.

In Chinese culture, "大复仇 - great revenge" is the opposite of the "dis-escalation".

《公羊传》曰：“九世犹可以复雠乎？曰：‘虽百世可也。

Gongyang Zhuan said:
“‘Even after nine generations, can one still avenge a wrong?’ He replied: ‘Even after a hundred generations, it is permissible.’”

 

[windwalker099]

I described the culture. Not all cultures have a name to put to it. Not all cultures have an ethnicity that claims it.

If you are expecting me to say Asian culture's, then I won't. Not all Asian countries are the same and not all have the same culture. As a result, they often see the same "Object or Subject" totally different.

The moment the differences aren't acknowledged is the same moment the stereotypes start to come out.

Just found it interesting that you brought it up without naming the culture. At this point, the conversation is neither relevant to the post nor interesting to continue. Regards.

 

[Same Trick]

and? Different cultures approach the same tool in different ways. So when I say that Appledog's experience with Ai may be cultural base, this is what I'm talking about. So Appledogs warnings about Ai are most likely Culture Based and not an accurate observation beyond Appledog's culture.

Ah, yes you’re right, I’ll guess I didn’t follow the reasoning correctly.
Yes the OP seem having a strong favourism toward an academic/intellectual approach of CMA applying Confucianism to it all, I can imagine those into that field may see a threat in AI

 

[Same Trick]

You have not answered the question,,,no need to if you don't want to..


It's obvious he is not in the US. The taiwan flag shows up on his avatar .

Living within a culture does not always mean one adopts or is part of it...Having been and lived in other countries and have met many expats some maintain their own culture within the culture that they live in..

You see that flag !? It’s not showing here, just a square with an X, he probably blocked it to be shown in the motherland

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

So Appledogs warnings about Ai are most likely Culture Based and not an accurate observation beyond Appledog's culture.

I just ask AI this question - Is communist bad?

Here is the answer from AI. If I'm in China, I may not like my AI answer. But if I'm in US, I'll love my AI answer.

I strongly doubt that the AI developed in China will give me this answer.
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Corruption: The absence of checks and balances in a one-party system can lead to abuse of power.

 

[Same Trick]

I just ask AI this question - Is communist bad?

Here is the answer from AI. If I'm in China, I may not like my AI answer. But if I'm in US, I'll love my AI answer.

I strongly doubt that the AI developed in China will give me this answer.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Corruption: The absence of checks and balances in a one-party system can lead to abuse of power.

Here in China we call it socialism with Chinese characteristics, meaning Chinese culture is not abandoned.
But we should remember communism is a goal pushed by socialism, communism has so far not yet been realized anywhere .

 

[Prince_Alarming]

My only real use of chatGPT has been to torture it by feeding swearwords and inappropriate humour into it. I may in fact be going to hell for this.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

Google AI has actually started getting a bit snippy with me: "Here is a list of reasons why grime is not just bad hip hop"...