My Viewpoint On Belts And Rank

[PhotonGuy]

When I first joined this forum years ago I had a certain viewpoint on belts and rank, but now, after having been to multiple dojos and after having made it to black belt at more than one dojo, my viewpoint on belts and rank has changed. At one time I had the mindset that somebody who didn’t want to earn belts or rank lacked ambition and didn’t want to amount to anything in the martial arts but now I realize that just because somebody has no desire to want to earn belts or rank doesn’t mean they lack ambition, they just might have different goals because people who do take up the martial arts do so for all different reasons and as such they have different goals in mind and not all those goals are about attaining belts and rank.

So for students of the martial arts who don’t have any desire to gain belts or rank, that’s their choice and I respect that. The problem is when people push their choices on other people, when they say other people should make the same choice as them. I won’t mention any names but some of the people on this forum have done just that. If you don’t want to earn belts or rank that’s fine but it’s not for you to decide whether or not other people should or shouldn’t want to earn belts or rank. We should all realize that we’re going to have different goals and ambitions and we should accept that and respect other people’s choices, even if they’re different from ours.

Now some people might’ve got the impression that I’ve got an obsession with the black belt due to posts I’ve made in the past. Specifically, it was obsession with getting a black belt under Sensei Yonny. That’s what I was obsessed with, getting a black belt under Sensei Yonny and getting it within a specific time frame, specifically before I turned 20. Getting a black belt at another dojo or by some other means just wouldn’t be the same as getting it under Sensei Yonny. So as some people suggested buying a black belt or having one mailed to me wouldn’t work because number one, that would be cheating, and number two, Sensei Yonny didn’t give or sell you a black belt if you haven’t first passed the test because to get a black belt under Sensei Yonny you have to have adequate skill and by passing the test that’s how you show you have adequate skill. So that’s what the black belt was all about, knowing that I have the proper skill and ability to meet Sensei Yonny’s standards for the belt, not about coming into possession or wearing a black piece of cloth.

So anyway, one of the things that really got on my nerves and why I kept beating a dead horse as some people put it, was because some people kept saying that you shouldn’t talk to your head sensei about what you need to do to get your next belt, including the black belt if that’s next, and that was the mistake I made. I didn’t talk to Sensei Yonny about how the test worked and what I needed to do to be able to test. So people kept saying that I should’ve made the mistake I made, but it was because I made such a mistake why I didn’t get a black belt under Sensei Yonny when I wanted to. But people kept missing the point and they kept saying you shouldn’t talk to your head sensei, so that’s why I kept beating a dead horse as some people put it.

So that’s where I was coming from with all the posts I’ve made in the past regarding belts of rank and this is my position on belts and rank now, I hope this clears everything up.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you take a course in school with "Pass/No Credit", since it will not affect your GPA, you will not spend much effort in that class.

I took a math course "Category Theory" in school. There was no homework, no middle term exam, and no final examine. At the end of that semester, a student asked, "How are you going to grade us?" The teacher said, "If you have courage to take this course, you deserve A" (In math department, you can't find any other course that is higher level than this).

I can't say I have learned much from that course. MA training is no different. If there is not enough pressure, people won't put enough time into it.

Will you go to the Harvard University. Spend 4 years. At the end of the 4th year, you don't want to take the final exam, quit your school without obtaining your bachelor's degree from Harvard? If you do, why?

The term "milestone" can be important for some people.

 

[JowGaWolf]

When I first joined this forum years ago I had a certain viewpoint on belts and rank, but now, after having been to multiple dojos and after having made it to black belt at more than one dojo, my viewpoint on belts and rank has changed. At one time I had the mindset that somebody who didn’t want to earn belts or rank lacked ambition and didn’t want to amount to anything in the martial arts but now I realize that just because somebody has no desire to want to earn belts or rank doesn’t mean they lack ambition, they just might have different goals because people who do take up the martial arts do so for all different reasons and as such they have different goals in mind and not all those goals are about attaining belts and rank.

So for students of the martial arts who don’t have any desire to gain belts or rank, that’s their choice and I respect that. The problem is when people push their choices on other people, when they say other people should make the same choice as them. I won’t mention any names but some of the people on this forum have done just that. If you don’t want to earn belts or rank that’s fine but it’s not for you to decide whether or not other people should or shouldn’t want to earn belts or rank. We should all realize that we’re going to have different goals and ambitions and we should accept that and respect other people’s choices, even if they’re different from ours.

Now some people might’ve got the impression that I’ve got an obsession with the black belt due to posts I’ve made in the past. Specifically, it was obsession with getting a black belt under Sensei Yonny. That’s what I was obsessed with, getting a black belt under Sensei Yonny and getting it within a specific time frame, specifically before I turned 20. Getting a black belt at another dojo or by some other means just wouldn’t be the same as getting it under Sensei Yonny. So as some people suggested buying a black belt or having one mailed to me wouldn’t work because number one, that would be cheating, and number two, Sensei Yonny didn’t give or sell you a black belt if you haven’t first passed the test because to get a black belt under Sensei Yonny you have to have adequate skill and by passing the test that’s how you show you have adequate skill. So that’s what the black belt was all about, knowing that I have the proper skill and ability to meet Sensei Yonny’s standards for the belt, not about coming into possession or wearing a black piece of cloth.

So anyway, one of the things that really got on my nerves and why I kept beating a dead horse as some people put it, was because some people kept saying that you shouldn’t talk to your head sensei about what you need to do to get your next belt, including the black belt if that’s next, and that was the mistake I made. I didn’t talk to Sensei Yonny about how the test worked and what I needed to do to be able to test. So people kept saying that I should’ve made the mistake I made, but it was because I made such a mistake why I didn’t get a black belt under Sensei Yonny when I wanted to. But people kept missing the point and they kept saying you shouldn’t talk to your head sensei, so that’s why I kept beating a dead horse as some people put it.

So that’s where I was coming from with all the posts I’ve made in the past regarding belts of rank and this is my position on belts and rank now, I hope this clears everything up.

That's Big of you to open up about things you don't have to. Much respect. That is from me to you.

 

[Fungus]

If you take a course in school with "Pass/No Credit", since it will not affect your GPA, you will not spend much effort in that class.

I took a math course "Category Theory" in school. There was no homework, no middle term exam, and no final examine. At the end of that semester, a student asked, "How are you going to grade us?" The teacher said, "If you have courage to take this course, you deserve A" (In math department, you can't find any other course that is higher level than this).

I can't say I have learned much from that course. MA training is no different. If there is not enough pressure, people won't put enough time into it.

My experience is that people are different, and some (may most?) need or want external pressure. But some people put pressure on themselves (from the inside). Its external vs internal reward dominance.

Will you go to the Harvard University. Spend 4 years. At the end of the 4th year, you don't want to take the final exam, quit your school without obtaining your bachelor's degree from Harvard? If you do, why?

I remember a guideline i used for myself when studying physics and math - if I need to ask my teacher "is this calculcation right", then that in itself is a hint that I do not master it. When I master the topic, I will stop seeking external approval (modulo that anyone can make a mistake that is).

I have always been driven mainly by intrinsic rewards but my experience is that many people are not like that, wether in MA or any other field.

So I think everyone has goals, but some have internal goals (invisible to others), some external goals, so these groups of people can easily misunderstand each other.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

Cool, I mean it's a great idea to have some idea of what the test consists of. Then, you can run through the test as much as you can once a week, to keep your training focussed while you're in training.

Also, for a black belt test you're going to need to be obsessed. Good luck.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

When I master the topic, I will stop seeking external approval ...

My long fist system doesn't have rank, but my Chinese wrestling system has. So, I can understand from both points of view.

One of my students wants to get his 4th degree BB. My assignment to him is

- To integrate leg skill into 108 moves Taiji form (such as to add scoop into Pen, foot sweep into Lu, outer hook into Ji, inner hook into An, ...).
- Change constant Taiji form training speed into variance Taiji form training speed (slow for compress, fast for release).

He has spent 2 years to work on this. It's a research topic that may have value in the MA world.

I assume 2 years of my student's life will still pass by without this assignment. IMO, to have a short time goal in our life can make our life more meaningful. You do your research and publish your paper; you will earn your reward and reputation.

 

[Buka]

Cool, I mean it's a great idea to have some idea of what the test consists of. Then, you can run through the test as much as you can once a week, to keep your training focussed while you're in training.

Also, for a black belt test you're going to need to be obsessed. Good luck.

I disagree, at least in our dojo. All you had to do to pass a test was come to classes and do your best. That’s all that mattered, you’d be fine

I took Principles of Democracy in high school. One of our guys had the same course three periods ahead of me. We’d pass in the corridor and he’d slip me a piece of paper with the test questions. No answers, just the questions. I’d look up the answers the best I could.

Passed the course. But you know what I learned? Not a damn thing.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I disagree, at least in our dojo. All you had to do to pass a test was come to classes and do your best. That’s all that mattered, you’d be fine

I took Principles of Democracy in high school. One of our guys had the same course three periods ahead of me. We’d pass in the corridor and he’d slip me a piece of paper with the test questions. No answers, just the questions. I’d look up the answers the best I could.

Passed the course. But you know what I learned? Not a damn thing.

Talked to a kid a couple weeks ago. He was graduating from a Comp Sci program and was telling me how he used AI to do all his classwork. While at the same time telling me he didn't really learn anything.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Talked to a kid a couple weeks ago. He was graduating from a Comp Sci program and was telling me how he used AI to do all his classwork. While at the same time telling me he didn't really learn anything.

This is really bad. To use Ai and still not learn anything. This like using a manual on how to fix something and at the end of fixing that item and say that I didn't learn anything. Either his use of Ai was flawed, or the next generation is just going to really lack in critical thinking. There is no reality where I will say that I used Ai and didn't learn something from it. It reminds me of high school kids with the answer keys who passed classes and learn nothing from the Answers that they were using.

I would have told him this "What you are telling me doesn't reflect good on your intelligence, and the fact that even that small reality is not understood makes you look even worse.

Ai is a tool. An information tool. The world makes sense after reading ithis post lol.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The problem is when people push their choices on other people, when they say other people should make the same choice as them.

When I took Karate in YMCA, I was white belt (but I had 12 years CMA training). I accepted challenge from my Karate instructor's brother who just got his BB. I won the match with my Karate white belt rank.

One of my students have been with me for 15 years. He doesn't want to take his BB test. He said, "I love to wear white belt, go to MMA gym, and beat up those guys".

The rank doesn't mean much. The true ability count.

 

[HighKick]

I disagree, at least in our dojo. All you had to do to pass a test was come to classes and do your best. That’s all that mattered, you’d be fine

I took Principles of Democracy in high school. One of our guys had the same course three periods ahead of me. We’d pass in the corridor and he’d slip me a piece of paper with the test questions. No answers, just the questions. I’d look up the answers the best I could.

Passed the course. But you know what I learned? Not a damn thing.

A Big problem with the modern teaching model is it encourages the 'binge and purge' mindset. Cram for a test and then forget everything to get ready for the next test.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

Maybe it's a generational thing. I was definetly educated along the lines of 'binge and purge'. We were in fact given lists of all the questions that were likely to be asked under examination in class by our teachers. I'm not bothering to defend this, as I hated it- a good 75% of it I have forgot, and I have an abnormally retentive memory. What's more, some of the stuff we were learning was fiddlesticking stupid. Take the 'magic bridge' method of learning to solve an equation. Not only is it stupid, it's actually harder to apply than what is actually happening as you balance the equation.

 

[HighKick]

Maybe it's a generational thing. I was definetly educated along the lines of 'binge and purge'. We were in fact given lists of all the questions that were likely to be asked under examination in class by our teachers. I'm not bothering to defend this, as I hated it- a good 75% of it I have forgot, and I have an abnormally retentive memory. What's more, some of the stuff we were learning was fiddlesticking stupid. Take the 'magic bridge' method of learning to solve an equation. Not only is it stupid, it's actually harder to apply than what is actually happening as you balance the equation.

Fully agree. There is WAY too much 'new' teaching method influence by teachers/professors who have little to no application experience. Just a stupid model.

 

[Fungus]

Talked to a kid a couple weeks ago. He was graduating from a Comp Sci program and was telling me how he used AI to do all his classwork. While at the same time telling me he didn't really learn anything.

A Big problem with the modern teaching model is it encourages the 'binge and purge' mindset. Cram for a test and then forget everything to get ready for the next test.

Sounds like just as much a mindeset problem of "modern students" who hasn't understood why they really learn things. The internal satisfaction of learning things will likely enrich your life and mental health but it has absolutely nothing to do with passing tests.

I remember this well from university, the majority was there do get a degree in order to get a job and did not actually care much about the subject, a minority was there for the deep passion of the topic, which was not measured in monetary values.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

A Big problem with the modern teaching model is it encourages the 'binge and purge' mindset. Cram for a test and then forget everything to get ready for the next test.

One has to think with his mind much deeper beyond what he may learn from a class.

When I worked for IBM, I developed an "object builder". I could use my object builder to build another object builder. I have always wondered what if I repeat that process 1,000,000 times. What will my 1,000,000 generation object builder will be like. It definitely will be slow in performance.

- But how slow can it be?
- What may cause it to slow down?

I didn't have change to get my question answered because I had to do manually and I didn't know how to let my computer to repeat that process 1,000,000 time back then.