My son's Weapons and Kata

[Gerry Seymour]

First picked it up in combat shooting, in re-targeting. I think it has to do with sacades of the human body. (you might want to start there)

I don't remember what studies I've read, but they're out there, and there were a lot of them if I remember correctly. What I do remember is testing it out. The eyes move pretty quickly from right to left and vice versa in a short field in front of you. Like if you look to the wall in the room you're sitting in right now and go left to right. But further from that front spectrum, like to your far right or left, the head snaps quicker than the eyes do, seems more naturaly as well. If you get startled from the side, what moves - your eyes, or does your head snap that way?

That's what I've been paying attention to. When I orient quickly (either startle reflex or just fast orientation) on something behind me, both head and eyes move. I wasn't able to find a study that discussed this when I looked a few days ago - ran into too many talking about the visual blanking during saccades. I may try again with a search in a journal engine, to see if keywords are more useful there.

 

[Buka]

But the act of changing direction has you covering in a new direction, and it is OK to look in that direction, before stepping there. This is not related to where your opponent is, but to where you step, and isn't your peripheral vision, to what you just dealt with, lessened, if you too quickly snap the head, toward a new direction?

Not sure. If your peripheral vision picks up something - that's one thing. If you're startled by something from the side, that's something else. Or is it?

 

[Buka]

That's what I've been paying attention to. When I orient quickly (either startle reflex or just fast orientation) on something behind me, both head and eyes move. I wasn't able to find a study that discussed this when I looked a few days ago - ran into too many talking about the visual blanking during saccades. I may try again with a search in a journal engine, to see if keywords are more useful there.

This is so much fun.

But we really hijacked this thread.

 

[CB Jones]

This is so much fun.

But we really hijacked this thread.

Absolutely not. Y'all just improved it.

 

[JR 137]

First picked it up in combat shooting, in re-targeting. I think it has to do with sacades of the human body. (you might want to start there)

I don't remember what studies I've read, but they're out there, and there were a lot of them if I remember correctly. What I do remember is testing it out. The eyes move pretty quickly from right to left and vice versa in a short field in front of you. Like if you look to the wall in the room you're sitting in right now and go left to right. But further from that front spectrum, like to your far right or left, the head snaps quicker than the eyes do, seems more naturaly as well. If you get startled from the side, what moves - your eyes, or does your head snap that way?

Wouldn't the eyes and head moving at the same time be even quicker, as in moving your eyes right and moving your head too?


Just playing around with it now, it seems like I see something quicker if I start my eyes moving in a direction a split second before I start moving my head then if I move just my eyes or just turn my head.

Seems like one of those physics questions about compounding the speed of two different objects.

I was taught to turn my head before the next step in kata. Why? No idea, I just listen to my teacher.

At the end of the day, it seems like dissecting something minute. I don't pay attention to which is moving first during sparring; if I do, it'll be lights out.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This is so much fun.

But we really hijacked this thread.

I seem to do that, kind of a lot. If I find any studies to discuss, I'll start a new thread for the discussion.

 

[CB Jones]

I seem to do that, kind of a lot. If I find any studies to discuss, I'll start a new thread for the discussion.

I've enjoyed it. Y'all took my thread to another level.

 

[Tames D]

I've enjoyed it. Y'all took my thread to another level.

You may regret these words
It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt, or your thread gets locked

 

[CB Jones]

You may regret these words
It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt, or your thread gets locked

I do not let fear rule my life.

 

[Tames D]

I do not let fear rule my life.

Then let the games begin...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I've enjoyed it. Y'all took my thread to another level.

Almost every thread has some deeper (or, in this case, simply tangential) topic that it can swerve to. I've been part of many swerves in the last year.

 

[jks9199]

Head turns in forms teach us the direction of the form; where is the attacker coming from. They teach us to see before we go into danger. Let's use a simple right turn at the end of a reverse punch (left leg forward, right hand punches). We'll do a simple right hand side block for the hand technique to deal with an incoming head level punch. This is a reasonable sequence I think, that most of us can pretty easily picture, and works across most styles. You could do it with pure peripheral vision, or merely turning the eyes -- and in real application, you probably would. But -- a form is demonstrating principles. By turning the head, we signal to anyone watching that we know where the attacker is, and we ingrain the habit of seeing the attack rather than just mindlessly or without awareness turning to face a threat.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Head turns in forms teach us the direction of the form; where is the attacker coming from. They teach us to see before we go into danger. Let's use a simple right turn at the end of a reverse punch (left leg forward, right hand punches). We'll do a simple right hand side block for the hand technique to deal with an incoming head level punch. This is a reasonable sequence I think, that most of us can pretty easily picture, and works across most styles. You could do it with pure peripheral vision, or merely turning the eyes -- and in real application, you probably would. But -- a form is demonstrating principles. By turning the head, we signal to anyone watching that we know where the attacker is, and we ingrain the habit of seeing the attack rather than just mindlessly or without awareness turning to face a threat.

I think the thing some folks will take issue with (and I'd be among them) is that you shouldn't train looking fully, then reacting. The head/look should definitely precede the reaction, but only by a fraction. As soon as you can see that there's a problem on that side, the reaction should start, so those who turn the head fully before starting the next step in the kata are actually training to delay the reaction.

My view, and certainly not the only reasonable one.

 

[jks9199]

You may regret these words
It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt, or your thread gets locked

I'm active in this thread -- but let me slip some insight on thread drift from the Moderator point of view in. Some drift is nearly inevitable. If it stays sort of related, and isn't disruptive, we generally let a lot go. If it starts to get too far afield, we may prune and start a new thread with those posts, suggest a split, or just try to steer it back on topic. If it gets disruptive... that's when threads get locked.

 

[jks9199]

I think the thing some folks will take issue with (and I'd be among them) is that you shouldn't train looking fully, then reacting. The head/look should definitely precede the reaction, but only by a fraction. As soon as you can see that there's a problem on that side, the reaction should start, so those who turn the head fully before starting the next step in the kata are actually training to delay the reaction.

My view, and certainly not the only reasonable one.

Absolutely; it shouldn't be "head looks right, then body turns and moves." Instead, it's perceive (imaginary) strike, looking starts the turn to face the threat. Hard to write, easier to show.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm active in this thread -- but let me slip some insight on thread drift from the Moderator point of view in. Some drift is nearly inevitable. If it stays sort of related, and isn't disruptive, we generally let a lot go. If it starts to get too far afield, we may prune and start a new thread with those posts, suggest a split, or just try to steer it back on topic. If it gets disruptive... that's when threads get locked.

And what do you do when the thread drift is actually about thread drift??

 

[Steve]

That's when I say something offensive. At least, that's the rule book I've been given.

Seriously, though, I am not at all interested in the current tangent, but am keenly interested in the development of mini-humans. So, if the thread turns back to kids or training, I'll try to be helpful.

 

[CB Jones]

Absolutely; it shouldn't be "head looks right, then body turns and moves." Instead, it's perceive (imaginary) strike, looking starts the turn to face the threat. Hard to write, easier to show.

That is what his Sensei said. It's ok for the head to start before the body but the posing with the head turn was wrong and needed to be fixed.

The body should begin orienting and blocking or striking about the same time the head finishes turning.

In the kata, You are perceiving a threat and should be turning to block or strike your attacker not posing for looks.

 

[CB Jones]

Seriously, though, I am not at all interested in the current tangent, but am keenly interested in the development of mini-humans. So, if the thread turns back to kids or training, I'll try to be helpful.

Well it starts with a good performance enhancer. We use gunpowder + anti-freeze + Raisin Bran.

Gunpowder for explosiveness

Anti-freeze to manage the ice in his veins

And Raisin Bran....just to stay regular.

 

[JR 137]

You may regret these words
It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt, or your thread gets locked

It's all fun and games until someone looses an eye. Then it's hilarious.