Mr Parker 1963, 1964, 1965 observations on a Video.

Kenpodoc

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Last night I was watching a very poor quality video originally from Steve Golden. It is a series of old home movies video taped while being shown on a screen. Several tapes showed Mr. Parker doing demos in 1963, 1964 and 1965. There is also a video of Ark wong in 1964. What I found interesting is that the video of Ark Wong showed a man moving very like the Mr. Parker of the 1970's. Mr. Parker initial demo in 1963 showed a different man than the Mr. Parker that I am used to. He was very fast and powerful but stiffer, bent at the waist more and controlled his opponent less effectively. Interestingly, by 1965 Mr. Parkers movement had changed considerably and he had changed dramatically from 1963, moving almost as well as he did in the 1970's videos I have seen.

I was impressed with how much he changed his Kenpo during those 2 years from the Chow influenced version he had done the previous 10 years.

Just an observation,

Jeff
 

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

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Good stuff out there from a number of old-timers, regarding the changes he made in the DELIVERY of kenpo techniques, based on the influences of kung-fu masters, such as Ark Wong.

Good observation. Interesting comparison: 50's, 60's, 70's, and the 80's just prior to his untimely passing. All very different.

Best Regards,

Dave
 

Jagdish

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Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:
Good stuff out there from a number of old-timers, regarding the changes he made in the DELIVERY of kenpo techniques, based on the influences of kung-fu masters, such as Ark Wong.

Good observation. Interesting comparison: 50's, 60's, 70's, and the 80's just prior to his untimely passing. All very different.

Best Regards,

Dave

What are main differences in the 80's?
 
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Kenpodoc

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Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:
Good stuff out there from a number of old-timers, regarding the changes he made in the DELIVERY of kenpo techniques, based on the influences of kung-fu masters, such as Ark Wong.

Good observation. Interesting comparison: 50's, 60's, 70's, and the 80's just prior to his untimely passing. All very different.

Best Regards,

Dave
Agreed, but the most interesting thing for me is that the lion's share of the changes appear to have occured between 1963 and 1965. That is a remarkably rapid transformation. It appears to me that the subsequent changes are a matter of slight modifications. The 1963 - 1964 changes are revolutionary the subsequent changes are fluff and buff.

Respectfully,

Jeff
 

Doc

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Kenpodoc said:
Last night I was watching a very poor quality video originally from Steve Golden. It is a series of old home movies video taped while being shown on a screen. Several tapes showed Mr. Parker doing demos in 1963, 1964 and 1965. There is also a video of Ark wong in 1964. What I found interesting is that the video of Ark Wong showed a man moving very like the Mr. Parker of the 1970's. Mr. Parker initial demo in 1963 showed a different man than the Mr. Parker that I am used to. He was very fast and powerful but stiffer, bent at the waist more and controlled his opponent less effectively. Interestingly, by 1965 Mr. Parkers movement had changed considerably and he had changed dramatically from 1963, moving almost as well as he did in the 1970's videos I have seen.

I was impressed with how much he changed his Kenpo during those 2 years from the Chow influenced version he had done the previous 10 years.

Just an observation,

Jeff
I concur with your observations sir. Mr. Parker all but abandoned much of the heavily Okinawan/Japanese influenced Kenpo "Karate" that he came to the mainland with from Chow’s teaching. When he began studying under Ark Wong and with Haumea “Tiny” Lefiti, it literally changed his perspective overnight. This can be observed very easily by comparing his first book, "Kenpo Karate," and his second book less than 2 years later, "Secrets of Chinese Karate."

As I have written before, Parker took his movements initially from Lefiti’s “Splashing Hands” style of doing things for a big Samoan. As observed, this was Parker’s most discernable physical leap, but make no mistake, over time the other changes he made were even more significant, but very subtle as he began to understand his own body mechanics.

This led to significant defections for this and other reasons from the beginning. Parker’s second black belt, (Ibrao) left after a year having received his black in 9 months. Flores, Montgomery, Inosanto, and others all left as the curriculum was created, adjusted, than changed, evolved, and even split off into a “business” version. It should be noted that the “ancients,” (the senior to the seniors) almost universally disliked the business model based on “motion,” and even those that “stayed around” didn’t learn it. Even Lefiti eventually chose to take his expertise to "Lima Lama" with his Samoan "brother," Tuumumao "Tino" Tuiolosega and forgo being associated with motion Kenpo as Parker expanded.

These evolutionary changes in and of Parker constantly confused students as well who either didn’t want to evolve with him, or for the most part, whose interests were much more self-serving. Much of the many disagreements today are because Parker evolved while students wanted to stay “married” to whatever material supported their rank, or their small space in his evolutionary timeline.

Even the names were confusing. Parker started with "karate," than dropped it, than put it back in for "selling" his motion Kenpo. Kenpo-Karate, Chinese Kenpo, American Kenpo, American Kenpo Karate, and Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate, in that order with subtle transitional and divergent versions. The biggest confusion comes from Parker allowing by necessity different philosophies and methodologies to exist concurrently. It varied widely from student-to-student, and even from one geographical region to another, and that still exists today.

Every generation had its firings or defections, and they all took with them their perspective of what they thought Ed Parker and his teaching was all about. All of them were right – and wrong. Right for them, but not for Parker who was constantly moving, and in the later years from the seventies, in more than one direction himself.

I was showing some video to some of the guys Saturday night of Parker from the 60’s doing ALL of the motion techniques that existed at the time. For them, it was truly a revelation.

The really sad thing is, the people that had the greatest influences on him are almost unknown.
 

IWishToLearn

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Doc said:
I was showing some video to some of the guys Saturday night of Parker from the 60’s doing ALL of the motion techniques that existed at the time. For them, it was truly a revelation.

*Requests to see that video next time I can make it down.*

Always a pleasure Doc, thank you again ;). Matt's still trying to figure out how his brain left the building for them 20 minutes hehe. The whole ride home he wouldn't quit bugging me about how come I didn't share you sooner. (Meaning why I hadn't dragged him down before.) Can't wait to get back for another cram-the-brain-full-of-more-goodies session.

*Starts to bow-then thinks better and just salutes*.
 

Doc

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IWishToLearn said:
*Requests to see that video next time I can make it down.*

Always a pleasure Doc, thank you again ;). Matt's still trying to figure out how his brain left the building for them 20 minutes hehe. The whole ride home he wouldn't quit bugging me about how come I didn't share you sooner. (Meaning why I hadn't dragged him down before.) Can't wait to get back for another cram-the-brain-full-of-more-goodies session.

*Starts to bow-then thinks better and just salutes*.
Well that answers my question on the other thread. My pleasure. Next time I'll dig up the video fpr you.
 

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

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IWishToLearn said:
*Requests to see that video next time I can make it down.*

Always a pleasure Doc, thank you again ;). Matt's still trying to figure out how his brain left the building for them 20 minutes hehe. The whole ride home he wouldn't quit bugging me about how come I didn't share you sooner. (Meaning why I hadn't dragged him down before.) Can't wait to get back for another cram-the-brain-full-of-more-goodies session.

*Starts to bow-then thinks better and just salutes*.

It was good to meet you, and place a face to the name.

And Doc...thanks for sharing. Monique was pleased to meet you and certainly impressed with the stability in the basics. She's been with me on my tours for a long time, and commented that she hadn't yet seen fundamentals that solid.

D.
 

Doc

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Kenpodoc said:
Agreed, but the most interesting thing for me is that the lion's share of the changes appear to have occured between 1963 and 1965. That is a remarkably rapid transformation. It appears to me that the subsequent changes are a matter of slight modifications. The 1963 - 1964 changes are revolutionary the subsequent changes are fluff and buff.

Respectfully,

Jeff
The subsequent changes in his "business" kenpo were fluff and buff Doc. What he personally did bordered on "magic," and was just as revolutionary, and continues to be so in a marketplace deluded in commercial interpretations of kenpo. Mr. Parker used his knowlede and skill to "sell" the business of kenpo, but that is also why no one could duplicate his results. Most simply wrote it off as Parker being Parker, with no expectation you could do what he did. Truth is he simply generally didn't teach it. The sad thing is that was mostly because most were not interested and never asked the right questions.
 

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