More than just hand techniques

[Decker]

Hi all.

I'd like to ask, besides short-ranged striking techniques using the hands, what other techniques does Wing Chun have in its repertoire?

I understand that straight front kicks are also in the syllabus, but how about, say, longer-ranged hand techniques, or other kinds of kicks?

Also, being a close-ranged style, are any locks, throws or takedowns that don't require going to the ground commonly practised?

Thanks.

My rationale is this: I'm smitten with all the hidden throws, locks and takedowns found in karate kata, but I'm also deeply impressed by Wing Chun's speed and pure lack of flash. I also like kicks, but not the flashy kind most often seen in especially sport TKD. So I'm sorta choosing between karate and Wing Chun for an art to stick with.

 

[mook jong man]

Hi all.

I'd like to ask, besides short-ranged striking techniques using the hands, what other techniques does Wing Chun have in its repertoire?

I understand that straight front kicks are also in the syllabus, but how about, say, longer-ranged hand techniques, or other kinds of kicks?

Also, being a close-ranged style, are any locks, throws or takedowns that don't require going to the ground commonly practised?

Thanks.

My rationale is this: I'm smitten with all the hidden throws, locks and takedowns found in karate kata, but I'm also deeply impressed by Wing Chun's speed and pure lack of flash. I also like kicks, but not the flashy kind most often seen in especially sport TKD. So I'm sorta choosing between karate and Wing Chun for an art to stick with.

Depends on the lineage or the school , in our lineage the hand attacks are all short range.
Our kicks are
Low heel kick to shin or kneecap
Medium heel kick to groin , bladder
Close range thrust kick to abdomen or chest
Snap kick to the nuts
Wing Chun side kick to knee , bladder , or abdomen
Hook kick to thigh , ribcage or abdomen usually combined with latching
Stamp kick - very close range kick usually done to back or side of the knee to break leg.
Chum Kiu thrust kick - knee , bladder or abdomen : the kick is to attacker from side , the kick is done with a full body pivot which strikes and squares the Wing Chun man up to the attacker at the same time.
Back hook kick - kick done to attacker at rear , heel rises up between their legs and strikes their nuts

Low side kick - to knee or shin : attacker directly at side
Medium side kick- to groin , or abdomen : attacker directly at side
Charging low side kick / Medium side kick - same as above kicks but with a step to the side added to reach attacker who is just out of range
The above side kicks are not a traditional part of the Wing Chun system , they were added by my Sifu because they are usefull. The traditional kick to the side from Chum Kiu takes quite a while to learn and to execute power properly.

A Wing Chun person will rarely kick higher than the waist , unless the attackers arms are controlled and usually not even then.
Low kicking is faster , and doesn't put the balance at too much risk .
Most of the kicks from above can be done in a rapid fire barrage to the legs that can be completed in under a second in unison with the hands controlling and striking.

Knee strikes
Charging knee - long range attack, to get you past kicking range safely whilst guarding your own groin and centerline
Straight knee - to thigh , groin ,bladder , or abdomen with neck latch
Roundhouse knee - same as above but done like hook kick , striking with knee instead of shin combined with latching

Locks
There are locks these are usually wrist or arm locks that are in response to the Wing Chun man being grabbed , the Wing Chun man will not instigate a lock as he prefers to keep his main striking weapons free .

But if our arms are grabbed we can respond with a wrist / arm breaking technique but usually we just elect to do a quick release technique and keep on striking .

Throws
I don't know if you can really classify them as a throwing technique or take down . Because they are done simultaneously with a strike.

Elbow strike and sweep - usually starts by Pak Sau then three chain punches to the head , move slightly to side , finish off with elbow to sternum at the same time as you smash the back of their calf muscle with the back of your heel.

Elbow acting on top half and leg on bottom half simultaneously causes attacker to be thrown violently back on their head. Usually done to attacker in lead leg stance.

Hook kick and latch - same entry technique as above or off attackers straight punch . Then series of chain punches to the head , then strike side of neck with blade of forearm, move slightly to side and simultaneously latch behind the back of their neck like a Bong Sau and pull on the back of neck and hook kick the front of their thighs or abdomen.

This has the effect of pulling their head forward while their lower body goes back from the force of the hook kick. This can make them hit the ground face first or do something like a somersault.

 

[geezer]

Hi all.

I'd like to ask, besides short-ranged striking techniques using the hands, what other techniques does Wing Chun have in its repertoire?

Close range to very close range stand-up striking is WC/WT's forte. But the advanced practitioners use legs extensively. In the WT lineage there said to be eight kicks, but the reality is that there is a nearly infinite number of ways to adapt and use your legs to strike, trap, lock, sweep and control your opponent --have you heard of "Chi Gurk" or "sticking leg" training?

There are also throws and grapples. Some are combinations of strikes and sweeps as Mook described. Others follow strikes, grabbing your opponent's head as you simultaneously sweep, leg-lock, or otherwise destroy his foundation, smashing him to the ground.

We also use some locks but, as Mook noted, most of our training is focused on freeing our arms from locks so that we can strike. And, as for long range techniques, we do use some kicks at longer ranges, but primarily as a closing technique. On the other hand, you will find Chunners who are also expert in locks, grappling, long kicks, and even boxing. Some of them post on this forum. My view is that WC/WT is a superb core art. I also practice Escrima, and I feel my WT really helps me make it work.

If fighting is your objective, check out the various branches of WT on Youtube. You might start with Emin Bozteope and his EBMAS organization and Keith Kernspecht's EWTO. For additional brutality, check out Victor Gutierrez. For speed, the late Bernd Wagner, or my Si Dei and instructor, Jeff Webb. Now there's a lot of other good stuff out there (and a whole mountain of trash too), but I haven't seen a lot of it. For good videos in other lineages, I'll defer to my learned colleagues on this forum.

So I'm sorta choosing between karate and Wing Chun for an art to stick with.

Well if you want an art to stick with, that would be Wing Chun/Tsun. We are all about sticking.

 

[arnisador]

I've seen WC players demonstrate their kicks, but I have never seen one thrown when moving at speed--not even when I studied it for half a year. However...the blindingly fast hands do largely make up for it! It's a great system and I wish I could study it again.

 

[dnovice]

Hi all.

I'd like to ask, besides short-ranged striking techniques using the hands, what other techniques does Wing Chun have in its repertoire?

I understand that straight front kicks are also in the syllabus, but how about, say, longer-ranged hand techniques, or other kinds of kicks?

Also, being a close-ranged style, are any locks, throws or takedowns that don't require going to the ground commonly practised?

Thanks.

My rationale is this: I'm smitten with all the hidden throws, locks and takedowns found in karate kata, but I'm also deeply impressed by Wing Chun's speed and pure lack of flash. I also like kicks, but not the flashy kind most often seen in especially sport TKD. So I'm sorta choosing between karate and Wing Chun for an art to stick with.

To see if an art fits your personality, I'd suggest visiting a karate school and then visiting a wing chun school making your decision based on that. In the mean time you can check out some videos on youtube. I'd recommend sifu redman page... He's under William cheung. I think his screen name on youtube is sifupr. Geezer mentions some others. I don't know any karate guys but I'm sure the karate guys on this forum can give you a good idea; ask tez, hungfistron, exile etc.

Like Mook mentioned above our long distance attacks are usually ways to get into our range. Mook has detailed many techniques so i wont go into any, but as geezer says if you are looking for something to "stick with." Sticking is our forte;-)

Well if you want an art to stick with, that would be Wing Chun/Tsun. We are all about sticking.

Yes!

I've seen WC players demonstrate their kicks, but I have never seen one thrown when moving at speed--not even when I studied it for half a year. However...the blindingly fast hands do largely make up for it! It's a great system and I wish I could study it again.

I love it man. I learn something new everyday.

 

[Tensei85]

I've seen WC players demonstrate their kicks, but I have never seen one thrown when moving at speed--not even when I studied it for half a year. However...the blindingly fast hands do largely make up for it! It's a great system and I wish I could study it again.

I think that's an interesting point. From my experience I've had better usage of the Wing Chun kick from allowing my opponent to enter my space and as he's coming for an attack I either angle of if a kick is being thrown towards my body or I kick him on his way in if he's throwing a hand attack.

This seems to the opponent that I'm throwing a fast kick however I'm just using his energy or center of mass against him, the kick looks faster and is harder to block this way. So I generally use the kicks as a counter attack methods as opposed to a offensive technique. However they are just as good either way, but based on my personal style factor I'm more comfortable with using it as a counter.

On a side note I try to control his center with the kick (wing chun concepts) and this allows better control and generally more time for my next attack. (timing is of most importance)

Awesome Mook & Geezer, once again I've thoroughly enjoyed your posts.
:ultracool

 

[Decker]

Whoa, thanks for all the insightful input, guys.

@dnovice: Yep, I'm intending to try out at a school of each art, for feel, like you said. I'm of a taekwondo background though, so I roughly know a little of what karate's gonna be like. My only taste of Wing Chun was Ip Man the movie.

@geezer: Thanks for the references. Checked out Victor Gutierrez, found this video -

. Are the moves demonstrated in the video part of the standard syllabus, like the locks, chokes and throws, or did he add in some of his own stuff as well?

Regarding sticking, I gotta admit I'm rather uncomfortable and weak exchanging strikes at that range. Still, no harm at least learning a little to plug up that hole in the defenses.

Thanks again, all!

 

[geezer]

@geezer: Thanks for the references. Checked out Victor Gutierrez, found this video -

. Are the moves demonstrated in the video part of the standard syllabus, like the locks, chokes and throws, or did he add in some of his own stuff as well?

My Si-dei trained WT in Europe and says that the EWTO under Master Keith Kernspecht has really expanded a lot of those locking , grappling and throwing techniques, ...although it's all there, "hidden" in the Chinese system. Like the hidden moves in Karate kata you referred to. But the EWTO has really developed this stuff as part of their curriculum.

Victor Gutierrez and Emin Boztepe are just two of a bunch of tough fighters that came out of this lineage. Now, I don't know Sifu Gutierrez, but I have met Emin, and I know that even before he split from Leung Ting to start his own WT organization, he was innovating. How can you be at that level and not innovate?

Finally, I should add that not all WT lineage is quite so , er..."Rambo" as that video. My current instructor is very good, but a helluva lot more considerate of his student's health. And his techniques emphasize finesse as well as combativeness. And for an older guy like me, that's a better fit.