More or less Korean terminology?

IcemanSK

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Karate folks tend to use Japanese terms for instructors (sempai, sensei, shihan etc.) and Judo folks tend to use Japanese terms nearly exclusively for techniques. We TKDoan seem to be all over the maps as far as the amount of Korean terms that we use. Some Sa Bum or Yup Chagi more than others, but very few (in my experience) will use Sa Bum Nim, or Kyo Sa Nim as if it's the person's given name (as Karate folks seem to lean toward in greater numbers).

Why do you think that is? How much Korean do you use in class & how often? Is your master referred to as Sa Bum Nim as if it's their given name, or is it more often by Mr/Ms./Master, etc.? How much technique terminology is used in your dojang?
 
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Gwai Lo Dan

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Funny I was watching this video yesterday and realized how limited I am in understand Korean terms for stances, blocks, punches, and kicks. The Korean TKD school I used to go to would use basic Korean techniques, but English for more complex techniques. For example, I learnt dollyeo chugi for turning kick, but never the Korean term for a spinning hook kick.

In terms of addressing the Grand Master, we typically called him Grand Master or Master (last name). In bowing in class, we called him sabunim.

 

Earl Weiss

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Back in the old days when dinosaurs roamed and the earth cooled and my instructor was under a Korean pioneer we had to learn Korean names for everything. Even had Flash cards. Later, my instructor became disenchanted with Korean instructors feeling they treated the round eyes disfavorably. At about the same time we got a hold of General Choi's 1975 Book and since it was in english with everyting indexed in English use of Korean terminology fell away. Unless there was a large Korean group in attendance, General Choi taught in english as well. While the Korean salutation is used for formal opening and closing of class the english word is typicaly used to address seniors in the organization and classes use english terms.

When I hosted Nam Tae Hi he said "Shuto" for knifehand which is the Japanese term.

Periodicaly I get a transplant from another country who had strong ties / roots to a Korean instructor. Since the Koreans did not know the native tongue and since the terms were often not translated on a widespread basis the korean terms were the only ones used and I have to dig deep into my memory to recall some of the names for techniques. Had one canadian BB who looked puzzled when I said the english aname of a technique and i asked if his instructor taught in English and he said no. Then I asked if he taught in Korean and he said no. Fianly I asked if he taught in french and he said yes. I said sorry, can't help you there. Just watch and imitate.
 

Gnarlie

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All Korean at our place, including techniques, steps, stances and transitions. The instructors sometimes translate to German, but not often and only if necessary.
 

Dirty Dog

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It varies by instructor and from day to day. I use more Korean usually, but not always.
While it's nice for students to learn the Korean terminology, it is not vital.
 

Gnarlie

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It varies by instructor and from day to day. I use more Korean usually, but not always.
While it's nice for students to learn the Korean terminology, it is not vital.

I agree, it is not vital and some of the best instruction I have had has been in other languages. It is important if those students will have contact with korean instructors or want to visit Korea, but even then one can get by with sign language.

What is interesting is when Koreans visit us even for a short time they typically learn the german terms for 'line up', 'sit down' and so on, but still use Korean for the techniques.

Also notable is some inconsistency in terminology even among Koreans. A good example of this is the twin knife hand block, which I have heard called all of the following:

kodeureo sonnal momtong bakkat makki
Sonnal makki
Shuto
Sudo
Yangsonnal makki
Kodeureo yangsonnal bakkat makki

It has just as many names in English and German. Which is why we tend to stick with Korean, and try to use the standard KKW terms.
 

Dirty Dog

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I agree, it is not vital and some of the best instruction I have had has been in other languages. It is important if those students will have contact with korean instructors or want to visit Korea, but even then one can get by with sign language.

Probably not an issue for the vast majority of students.

What is interesting is when Koreans visit us even for a short time they typically learn the german terms for 'line up', 'sit down' and so on, but still use Korean for the techniques.

I imagine it would be problematic for them to learn the local terminology, since it's likely they will be doing seminars in other countries as well.

Also notable is some inconsistency in terminology even among Koreans. A good example of this is the twin knife hand block, which I have heard called all of the following:

Let's see how many we can translate. :)

kodeureo sonnal momtong bakkat makki
Sonnal makki
Shuto
Sudo
Yangsonnal makki
Kodeureo yangsonnal bakkat makki

"double knifehand middle section outside block"
"knifehand block"
"Japanese term..."
"Possibly a japanese term with an accent..."
"double knifehand black"
"double double knifehand outside block"

I think kodeureo and yang are both ways of saying a move is doubled, but that kodeureo is usually used to indicate a 1-2 technique, like the kodeureo yop chagi in Koryo.

It has just as many names in English and German. Which is why we tend to stick with Korean, and try to use the standard KKW terms.

It does get confusing...
 
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IcemanSK

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Does anyone use Sa Bum Nim more often than Mr./Ms./Master in reference to their instructor? How about using terms like Kyo Sa Nim or Gyeo Kyo Nim for assistant instructors? Who uses these in their school?
 

Gnarlie

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Does anyone use Sa Bum Nim more often than Mr./Ms./Master in reference to their instructor? How about using terms like Kyo Sa Nim or Gyeo Kyo Nim for assistant instructors? Who uses these in their school?
I do, but not the terms for assistant instructors. Kwanjangnim and Sabeomnim are regularly used though, as are the terms Yukeupja and Yudanja.

Probably not an issue for the vast majority of students.



I imagine it would be problematic for them to learn the local terminology, since it's likely they will be doing seminars in other countries as well.



Let's see how many we can translate. :)



"double knifehand middle section outside block"
"knifehand block"
"Japanese term..."
"Possibly a japanese term with an accent..."
"double knifehand black"
"double double knifehand outside block"

I think kodeureo and yang are both ways of saying a move is doubled, but that kodeureo is usually used to indicate a 1-2 technique, like the kodeureo yop chagi in Koryo.



It does get confusing...

The yeop chagi is 'kodeup'; repeated, kodeureo for blocks is 'supported' or 'reinforced'.

The full technique name for twin knifehand in Korean is Kodeureo Yangsonnal Momtong Bakkat Makki - the koreans we have with us tell me that it's not a redundancy, but we are struggling to get to the definition of the 'Yang' part.
 

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At the school my son and I attend, most of the instructors are Korean. They tend to use Korean terms for stances and kicks, then follow that up with the English equivalents. The Korean terms they use for some things seem a little odd to me sometimes though. For instance they call a conventional rear-leg roundhouse kick ap doolyo chagi rather than just doolyo chagi. When I asked why they add the extra "ap" at the front, they said it's because you're facing forward, which makes sense, but...aren't you assumed to be facing forward anyway?

When we practice kicking combinations, we're required to call-out the Korean names of the kicks as we perform them. Also interestingly, they use Korean terms only for stances and kicks. For strikes and blocks they use only the English terms. Counting is always done in Korean. Regardless of level, instructors 2nd-dan and up are referred to as Master, but I think that's done to just keep things simple for the children students. Adult students are always addressed as Mr. and Ms. (I'm only first dan in Kukkiwon taekwondo, though I have prior taekwondo experience from my college years and of course I'm now older than everybody else there...I help out a lot in class so they recently decided to give me an instructor's uniform and have me addressed as instructor, another example of how they're a little loose on titles at my school.)

For the formal closing of class, bowing to the flag and the instructors etc., that's all done in Korean.
 

Gnarlie

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At the school my son and I attend, most of the instructors are Korean. They tend to use Korean terms for stances and kicks, then follow that up with the English equivalents. The Korean terms they use for some things seem a little odd to me sometimes though. For instance they call a conventional rear-leg roundhouse kick ap doolyo chagi rather than just doolyo chagi. When I asked why they add the extra "ap" at the front, they said it's because you're facing forward, which makes sense, but...aren't you assumed to be facing forward anyway?.

Ap dollyo chagi came about when the koreans wanted to differentiate between the old style big swing of the knee through the target slower trad dollyo and the newer knee up and forward then turn in sporty ap dollyo. I remember seeing the newer kick for the first time, and struggling to get it right.

When we practice kicking combinations, we're required to call-out the Korean names of the kicks as we perform them. Also interestingly, they use Korean terms only for stances and kicks. For strikes and blocks they use only the English terms. Counting is always done in Korean. Regardless of level, instructors 2nd-dan and up are referred to as Master, but I think that's done to just keep things simple for the children students. Adult students are always addressed as Mr. and Ms. (I'm only first dan in Kukkiwon taekwondo, though I have prior taekwondo experience from my college years and of course I'm now older than everybody else there...I help out a lot in class so they recently decided to give me an instructor's uniform and have me addressed as instructor, another example of how they're a little loose on titles at my school.)

For the formal closing of class, bowing to the flag and the instructors etc., that's all done in Korean.

Interesting. I wonder why they use English for hand techs.
 

TrueJim

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Interesting. I wonder why they use English for hand techs.

This is pure conjecture on my part, but I get the impression that they view knowing the names of kicks as being part of the "culture" of takewondo, whereas knowing the names of blocks and strikes is unimportant.
 

Gnarlie

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This is pure conjecture on my part, but I get the impression that they view knowing the names of kicks as being part of the "culture" of takewondo, whereas knowing the names of blocks and strikes is unimportant.
That's a shame if it's true.

The kicks are easier to learn though, because they are all chagi, whereas hands have makki, chigi, jireugi, tzireugi, ppaegi, milgi, and a host of others. That might be why.
 

TrueJim

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While we're on that topic...

The name they teach us for Back Hook Kick is hwe chook. No "chagi" in the name. Any idea what those two words mean? Hwe chook? I could ask them, but I know what the answer would be: "back hook kick" :)

Also, here's another thing I puzzle over. Jump Front Snap Kick..."eedan ap chagi"...I believe "eedan" means 'second level', but why not use the word for "jump" there instead? Any theories?
 

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Oh, I'll give you another example of the weird names they teach us. Skip roundhouse..."balun bal" which I believe means "fast foot." In our school we call a skip roundhouse a balun bal.
 

Gnarlie

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While we're on that topic...

The name they teach us for Back Hook Kick is hwe chook. No "chagi" in the name. Any idea what those two words mean? Hwe chook? I could ask them, but I know what the answer would be: "back hook kick" :)

Dwi chook is the underside of the heel, it could be named after the striking surface (although that would technically be dwikoomchi, the back of the heel). Alternatively it may come from the verb stem hwiro (crescent shape), with chook meaning the heel (although apchook is the ball of the foot too, dwichook the heel).
Also, here's another thing I puzzle over. Jump Front Snap Kick..."eedan ap chagi"...I believe "eedan" means 'second level', but why not use the word for "jump" there instead? Any theories?

Eedan Yeopchagi is also used for jumping /flying side kick. Because jumping and airborne techniques are a focus at second dan, along with balance and power. Alternative name is Twio Ap / Yeop Chagi.
 

Gnarlie

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Oh, I'll give you another example of the weird names they teach us. Skip roundhouse..."balun bal" which I believe means "fast foot." In our school we call a skip roundhouse a balun bal.
Bareun Bal is fast foot, yes, meaning step kick. I bet they use Narae Chagi for switch kicks too...
 

Dirty Dog

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I do, but not the terms for assistant instructors. Kwanjangnim and Sabeomnim are regularly used though, as are the terms Yukeupja and Yudanja.



The yeop chagi is 'kodeup'; repeated, kodeureo for blocks is 'supported' or 'reinforced'.

The full technique name for twin knifehand in Korean is Kodeureo Yangsonnal Momtong Bakkat Makki - the koreans we have with us tell me that it's not a redundancy, but we are struggling to get to the definition of the 'Yang' part.

You are correct. I plead "3AM posting syndrome" as my defense for the stupid error. #facepalm


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Not TapaTalk. Really.
 

WaterGal

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Does anyone use Sa Bum Nim more often than Mr./Ms./Master in reference to their instructor? How about using terms like Kyo Sa Nim or Gyeo Kyo Nim for assistant instructors? Who uses these in their school?

We teach them - we require students to learn some Korean terms for each guep level, and instructor titles are one of them - but don't generally use them in class. I'm Ms ______ and my fianc矇 is Master ________, and our other assistant instructors are Mr or Ms ________. We do use Korean words for counting, common commands (cheryot, shijak, etc), and sometimes use them for stances, strikes and blocks.
 
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