more learning less politics

Manny

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I am in the more learning less politics inside tae kwon do. I am really hungry about learning in TKD and the MA in general, there is no single day I don't try to learn something new, about the politics I am not interested, never been a competitor and never would.

The core of TKD is inside the teaching/learning the MA that TKD is, I would rather be in a humble but full of experience with a nice sambonim who wanmts to teach/show the true meaning of TKD than in a nice McDojo where all the learning stuff is about tournament competition.

Some times I just wonder how was TKD inside the old Korean dojangs around 1940's-1950's? I think learning and hard core training.

Manny
 

dancingalone

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There's only as much politics in your TKD as you choose to allow. Just saying. I really don't get all the angst to be honest. You can leave it out pretty easily just by focusing on the core of what TKD should be: ohysical exercise, self-defense training, and mental/spiritual growth. All the rest is irrelevant.

How does that biblical quote go? Something like "If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell."
 

Earl Weiss

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Some times I just wonder how was TKD inside the old Korean dojangs around 1940's-1950's? I think learning and hard core training.

Manny

Easy one . No TKD training for the 1940's and about half the 1950's.
 

dancingalone

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Easy one . No TKD training for the 1940's and about half the 1950's.

Yep, many if not all of the dojangs were closed during WWII. Of course what they were training in prior to the war was probably karate and judo. So if we wonder what the Koreans trained in back then, karate might be a good representation.
 

StudentCarl

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It's easy to get caught up in the myth of "the good old days." Dig into the history of the kwons and you'll have all the politics you could want. If you're human, politics is part of the package.

Remember 'Lengthen Your Line' from Zen in the Martial Arts (Hyams)?

Your heart's in the right place Manny.

Good luck with your 2nd dan test!

Carl
 

RSweet

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It's easy to get caught up in the myth of "the good old days." Dig into the history of the kwons and you'll have all the politics you could want. If you're human, politics is part of the package.

Remember 'Lengthen Your Line' from Zen in the Martial Arts (Hyams)?

Your heart's in the right place Manny.

Good luck with your 2nd dan test!

Carl

Too true. Get one of the old grandmasters to tell you the story of how Taekwondo got its name. Short version of the story comes down to stuck in a restaurant, feeding them drinks and food, waited til most had passed out - got it passed.

Hate to tell you this but politics is a way of life. Your class has its own politics and pecking order, your family, your church, your kid's school, everywhere. Politics is not bad, it is how some people use the daily life compromises that makes the rest of us uncomfortable.
 

Xue Sheng

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Been at this stuff for over 30 years some of that was TKD and it seems that you will find politics, to varying degrees, in all styles these days. But to me it basically comes down to my way of kicking someone is better than your way of kicking soemone… same person, same kick, same old argument… who cares.

As to the good ole days (Pre-Olympic TKD); Interestingly I did not experience that much in the way of politics in the first 10 or so years… maybe I was too young to notice…or care. Now I'm older (much) I notice...but I don't care... I just don't have time for it

Got involved in it briefly in CMA and got sick of it really really fast.

So, IMO, the whole thing is a complete waste of time and I have no time for politics in MA… or just about anything else for that matter.

Manny, I’m with you, enjoy the training
 
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Manny

Manny

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Nice replies of everyone, yes, when I sad TKD from the 40's I was thinking mid 40's to 1950's, but again I would love to be in one of those old dojangs in the period of time and to train the way they do in those years.

Manny
 

granfire

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Nice replies of everyone, yes, when I sad TKD from the 40's I was thinking mid 40's to 1950's, but again I would love to be in one of those old dojangs in the period of time and to train the way they do in those years.

Manny

I forgot when Japan occupied Korea, but the first half of the 20th century just being 'Korean' was bad for your health from what I gathered.

The Masters trained - if they were lucky - in Japan...
 

ATC

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I am in the more learning less politics inside tae kwon do. I am really hungry about learning in TKD and the MA in general, there is no single day I don't try to learn something new, about the politics I am not interested, never been a competitor and never would.
See the key word you used is "I", meaning you. Unfortunatly there are enough that are interested, because competing is what they do. Plus many dojang owners make their living off their dojang and competing is a great marketing tool. It is not the core of your dojang but it helps get your name out there. You will be surprised at how many people join a school becasue they heard there were some great competitors at that school.

The core of TKD is inside the teaching/learning the MA that TKD is, I would rather be in a humble but full of experience with a nice sambonim who wanmts to teach/show the true meaning of TKD than in a nice McDojo where all the learning stuff is about tournament competition.
I really don't think that a school that teaches only competition TKD by definition is a McDojang, if what they teach is quality. I could walk into a school that teaches no competition or sport TKD and it still be low or poor quality. This term McDojo/McDojang really makes no sence to me. McDonalds is highly sucessful and makes it's food to it's standards. Is that a bad thing? If there was one Dojang that could produce mass students of the highest quality then is that a bad thing?

So if Dojang 1 produced 100 poor black belts and Dojang 2 produce 100 awesome black belts in the same amount of time, wouldn't they both be called McDojang's? They both produced a product of like quality from each dojang. One just had better quality than the other. That word McDojo/McDojang always baffled me. Just another example of one person saying something and the masses jumping on without even thinking about what it is that they are jumping onto.

Some times I just wonder how was TKD inside the old Korean dojangs around 1940's-1950's? I think learning and hard core training.

Manny
Why? I don't think it was any better than today. Can you really name anything that has not evolved for the better? I know that this computer that I am useing to type this message is better than the one I had back in the 90's. Even better than the one I had just 3 years ago.

It would be hard pressed to find anything that has not gotten better. That is what we live for, to make things better that what they are.
 

terryl965

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Politics who needs your stinky politics, OH by the way I will be voting in the next ballet just in case we do.....
 

MSUTKD

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You think that politics in TKD is new, lol. It was just as bad in the beginning and probably worse. Half of the dogma people quote as facts about taekwondo comes from these “old school” days.
 

Miles

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You think that politics in TKD is new, lol. It was just as bad in the beginning and probably worse. Half of the dogma people quote as facts about taekwondo comes from these “old school” days.

Yup, just think of all the arguing and politicking that went on to decide what to call this art: tang soo do, hwa soo do, kong soo do, tae soo do, taekwondo, tae kwon do, taekwon-do....get the picture?
 
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Manny

Manny

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Yup, just think of all the arguing and politicking that went on to decide what to call this art: tang soo do, hwa soo do, kong soo do, tae soo do, taekwondo, tae kwon do, taekwon-do....get the picture?

I can tell you at least in my country back in the 80's politics in TKD were very few, we had two main Kwans here, Moo Duk Kwan and Ji Do Kwan, and all the instructors,profesors,students and came form those roots. Copetition amoung those Kwans was fierce but the bad politics were very low, yes we were inside WTF and our masters were certified by KKW like these days. Trainin was more traditional and we had tourneys like today but the TKD trainings were more balanced about poomsae, self defense and kyorugi (competition).

Manny
 

dortiz

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Ahh, the Good Old Days.

Everything was so much better and everyone trained so much harder. As a matter of fact everyone had to train in the Snow, Uphill and backwards, both ways...

Just remember that we are making the Good Old Days every morning we get up : )
 
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Manny

Manny

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Yup the old good days, maybe I am too romantic in this thing, maybe cause I had wonderful times back in those days, maybe I am getting old and memories are wonderful things, who knows, but I remeber back in those days training was more martial/philosophical thing.

But as DORTIZ wrote we must make the Good Old Days every morning we get up.

Manny
 

Daniel Sullivan

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The core of TKD is inside the teaching/learning the MA that TKD is, I would rather be in a humble but full of experience with a nice sambonim who wanmts to teach/show the true meaning of TKD than in a nice McDojo where all the learning stuff is about tournament competition.

Just a comment on this: McDojo is a business model and can be applied to any curriculum and really is a separate issue from the quality of the school. One can be 'traditional' and not be a McDojo, but still be a lousy school. A school can be a great school and be a McDojo too.

McDojo has to do with the level of commercialism and how the business end is run, not the competition aspect.

Daniel
 

Daniel Sullivan

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Another comment on the McDojo is that while it does not automatically mean poor quality, it generally ends up that way. A McDojo often emphasizes moving students through in about two years and 'graduating them' by giving them their black belt.

A good competition school is focused on winning competitions, so moving students along in their belt rank is not necessarily on the menu; if the student is not going to be competitive in the next belt rank, they need to be worked with until they are before they are promoted (I would assume at least). Otherwise, it hurts the school in competitive standings.

Where "sport competition" comes in with McDojos is that they use it as something for the kids to do. Most McDojos don't actually field teams, however. They use the WTF rule set to furnish an activity where the kids can pad up and jump around. They use forms as an activity as well.

Many will have numerous clubs and membership upgrades, all of which have fees attached to them.

Daniel
 

StudentCarl

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Daniel, your point about competition is a good one. One thing that bugs me and makes me suspect a 'McDojo' is when we learn that a school is belting its players down/lower for tournaments. That tells me a lot about the focus of the school, and none of it good.
 

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