Money money money and martial arts - time for me to quit MA?

[BaktoBasics]

Hello again everyone. As you probably know, i've been in martial arts a long time and have years experience in afew styles, a BB in TKD etc.

I'm a uni student. I can't afford the costs of martial arts training anymore. They now all charge $15 a lesson. This can provide me with lunch for 3 days; heck, after 3 lessons I spend the same as buying a text book for a subject! (this fee is PLUS a yearly membership fee ($180), insurance, uniform, etc etc!!! OMG!

Now, obviously there is demand for martial arts instruction - so, the price is justified. But, are these prices restricting many people from training as much as they want?

Not only do I not have time to make classes, i now find i struggle to afford them. In fact, after learning very little after a lessson, I QUESTION THE COST EFFECTIVENESS OF A CLASS. Time to quit martial arts????

On a nother note, how does this sound. Theres a sword art. The grand sensei in Japan is a swordsmith. Now, once you reach a level to use a live blade, you MUST buy from him. Someone buying a $10,000 blade from Hanweii is not good enough as the sword must reach certain safety requirements and be a good cutting blade. This sensei's cheapest sword is $2,000. Does this sound like a sham? Is it shameful that people are making martial arts inaccessible to the common person? Is this justified? I walked right out (respectfully of course!).

 

[Blindside]

I'm sort of surprised at the costs you are finding for martial arts instruction around a university. Most college/universities (in the US, where are you?) have martial arts clubs that offer martial arts to students for relatively low prices. As an example, at the University of Washington (2001 prices) offered 3 month intro courses for $26. The clubs of used this as a way of generating membership, full club membership cost varied, but it was usually less than $40 a quarter (3 months).

If your university does not offer something similar, have you considered starting your own club?

Lamont

 

[chinto01]

$15.00 a lesson sounds a little steep to me. What style is this and where are you located? There are dojos in New York City that charge way less. Now on the opposite end of the spectrum I know someone who studies Taekwondo in Arizonia and he pays close to $200.00 a month for classes because there are not alot of dojos in the area. Sounds like supply and demand to me. My suggestion is to keep searching for a dojo. Ask around. Believe it or not there are still some teachers out there that charge little if any fees at all. They may work out of their home but some of your best instruction is kept to a small group. Don't give up yet. As I stated in another thread you started focus on your basics as there is plenty to still learn even though you are a black belt!

In the spirit of Bushido!

Rob

 

[Mark Barlow]

I know there are a handful of instructors who have made big bucks off martial arts but the vast majority of us are lucky to cover expenses. Rent, utilities, insurance and continuing education doesn't come cheap. Most instructors who teach out of their garage or a chuch basement to avoid costs are looked down upon by the very students who complain of high costs so we have a Catch-22.

If you are unable to afford to study and can't make arrangements with an instructor to barter for lessons, perhaps you should take time off and focus on college. Graduate, get a good job and train where and with who you want.

 

[MJS]

Hello again everyone. As you probably know, i've been in martial arts a long time and have years experience in afew styles, a BB in TKD etc.

I'm a uni student. I can't afford the costs of martial arts training anymore. They now all charge $15 a lesson. This can provide me with lunch for 3 days; heck, after 3 lessons I spend the same as buying a text book for a subject! (this fee is PLUS a yearly membership fee ($180), insurance, uniform, etc etc!!! OMG!

Now, obviously there is demand for martial arts instruction - so, the price is justified. But, are these prices restricting many people from training as much as they want?

Not only do I not have time to make classes, i now find i struggle to afford them. In fact, after learning very little after a lessson, I QUESTION THE COST EFFECTIVENESS OF A CLASS. Time to quit martial arts????

On a nother note, how does this sound. Theres a sword art. The grand sensei in Japan is a swordsmith. Now, once you reach a level to use a live blade, you MUST buy from him. Someone buying a $10,000 blade from Hanweii is not good enough as the sword must reach certain safety requirements and be a good cutting blade. This sensei's cheapest sword is $2,000. Does this sound like a sham? Is it shameful that people are making martial arts inaccessible to the common person? Is this justified? I walked right out (respectfully of course!).

The cost is going to vary from school to school, the location, the instructor and the art being taught. If you are a student, then yes, I can see where things would be getting costly between the two things. You might consider talking to the inst. and seeing if there isn't something that you can work out. If that is not an option, and you still have a desire to keep training, what about looking at other places to train?

Good luck in your decision.

Mike

 

[chinto01]

I know there are a handful of instructors who have made big bucks off martial arts but the vast majority of us are lucky to cover expenses. Rent, utilities, insurance and continuing education doesn't come cheap. Most instructors who teach out of their garage or a chuch basement to avoid costs are looked down upon by the very students who complain of high costs so we have a Catch-22.

I have heard the same thing but to play devils advocate why do you think they are looked down upon? I would rather train 3-5 people out of my garage who really wanted to be there than to train 20-24 who did not want to be there. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with training out of someones garage as long as you are comfortable with them. One of my best teachers works out of a church basement. Not sure why but I am guessing to keep his lessons reasonably priced.

In the spirit of Bushido!

Rob

 

[Shizen Shigoku]

I say keep looking around too. Try the local MA supply store. They probably have a bulletin board with flyers and business cards for MA schools in the area. Maybe try a style you haven't thought of before.

Also try parks and community centers. I worked out at a place that only charged 50$ a month for 3 classes a week (that's less than 4$ per). I've also been able to work out deals with instructors after letting them know my predicament (am also a uni. student).

 

[Rich Parsons]

Hello again everyone. As you probably know, i've been in martial arts a long time and have years experience in afew styles, a BB in TKD etc.

I'm a uni student. I can't afford the costs of martial arts training anymore. They now all charge $15 a lesson. This can provide me with lunch for 3 days; heck, after 3 lessons I spend the same as buying a text book for a subject! (this fee is PLUS a yearly membership fee ($180), insurance, uniform, etc etc!!! OMG!

Now, obviously there is demand for martial arts instruction - so, the price is justified. But, are these prices restricting many people from training as much as they want?

Not only do I not have time to make classes, i now find i struggle to afford them. In fact, after learning very little after a lessson, I QUESTION THE COST EFFECTIVENESS OF A CLASS. Time to quit martial arts????

On a nother note, how does this sound. Theres a sword art. The grand sensei in Japan is a swordsmith. Now, once you reach a level to use a live blade, you MUST buy from him. Someone buying a $10,000 blade from Hanweii is not good enough as the sword must reach certain safety requirements and be a good cutting blade. This sensei's cheapest sword is $2,000. Does this sound like a sham? Is it shameful that people are making martial arts inaccessible to the common person? Is this justified? I walked right out (respectfully of course!).

I believe in a fair price and covering the bills, which is what we do in our club. No one gets rich let alone lives off the money.

Yet, we have let many students on hard times train for free or to rack up a bill, their choice, and in the end they do not value what they have learned, and do not stay. Those who showed up and paid, and trained, and wanted to be there, all the time, were the ones who became the good instructors, or good practitioners.

This by no means anyone should charge $1000 a month for training, or such. It just means that there will be a charge, based upon the local economy. Sometimes the charge is higher becuase the instructor does not want that many students. Sometimes it is lower, becuase they believe it gives more a chance to learn, and might stay. Infinite reason, but the local economy and environment will dictate the rate. If you are not interested, then go elsewhere.

 

[Mark Barlow]

[I have heard the same thing but to play devils advocate why do you think they are looked down upon? I would rather train 3-5 people out of my garage who really wanted to be there than to train 20-24 who did not want to be there. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with training out of someones garage as long as you are comfortable with them. One of my best teachers works out of a church basement. Not sure why but I am guessing to keep his lessons reasonably priced.

In the spirit of Bushido!

Rob]

I guess I didn't phrase myself well. I didn't intend to give the impression that I looked down my nose at someone teaching small classes out of their home or at a church or community center. Over the last 25 years I've taught at churches, jewish community centers, community schools, garages, parks and state of the art gyms. Regardless of where I was teaching, the curriculum stayed the same, rank requirements didn't change and the level of training was maintained. I've had prospective students walk away from classes at the Y that cost $25.00 a month and then show up eager to train when I opened a private dojo and charged $55.00 a month. Location, location, location

 

[Jerry]

I believe in a fair price and covering the bills, which is what we do in our club. No one gets rich let alone lives off the money.

I think that a case can be made for a professional teacher who can afford to constantly improve his own skills by training as well. Add to this my interest in combative arts, and it makes an interesting situation (a teacher who needs to make a living off a limited number of students).

There are several strategies, from teaching popular classes (kids TKD), to having a "day job", to being independantly wealthy. All have strengths and weaknesses.

That said, look around and I'd bet you'll find people at the U that will train with you for free.

 

[Mark Weiser]

I think a good idea would be to start a training club at your University. Do it part time and do it for free or charge 25 to 50 dollars a month for the classes.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I think that a case can be made for a professional teacher who can afford to constantly improve his own skills by training as well. Add to this my interest in combative arts, and it makes an interesting situation (a teacher who needs to make a living off a limited number of students).

There are several strategies, from teaching popular classes (kids TKD), to having a "day job", to being independantly wealthy. All have strengths and weaknesses.

That said, look around and I'd bet you'll find people at the U that will train with you for free.

I am not opposed to someone getting training money or even living ok off of their club. I just stated what we do. No judgement for others .

You forgot the one I am holding out for, the independantly wealthy woman, who does not mind I spend lots of time teaching and practicing, and travelling as well. Of course she can come along, and do what she likes as well .

 

[TigerWoman]

$15 a lesson, is that for a hour class? That's what at 3 times a week 45 a week and 180 a month. My school charges 49. a month unlimited amount of classes 3x a day possible from instruction from a 6th dan. Yeah, thats too much for anyone let alone a college student. Since you already are a black belt, you are an asset to the school, an instructor but an instructor in training. Alot of the black belts in my school are given tuition free for exchange of helping teach. Maybe you can work out some arrangement if you talk to the owner/head instructor. Or look at some of the local orgs that are outside of the university. If its in your blood, its hard to give it up, so I would work out some kind of arrangement. Good luck! TW

 

[Grenadier]

On a nother note, how does this sound. Theres a sword art. The grand sensei in Japan is a swordsmith. Now, once you reach a level to use a live blade, you MUST buy from him. Someone buying a $10,000 blade from Hanweii is not good enough as the sword must reach certain safety requirements and be a good cutting blade. This sensei's cheapest sword is $2,000. Does this sound like a sham? Is it shameful that people are making martial arts inaccessible to the common person? Is this justified? I walked right out (respectfully of course!).

That would be difficult to answer. How good of a swordsman is this o-sensei? Also, how good are his swords? If his swords are at least as good as the equivalently priced competitors', then I would say that it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

If his wares are better than an equivalently priced Bugei, Howard Clark, etc., then yes, he's certainly justified. If anything, give me his name and web site!

However, if his wares are not nearly as good as an equivalently priced sword from a premium manufacturer, then perhaps there is a bit of selfishness involved here on his part.

In all honesty, 2000 dollars for a premium shinken is actually not too bad of a price at all, but of course, without my seeing his wares, I can only make a guess, and assume that his stuff is good.

Still, though, when it comes down to it, it's his dojo, and if he insists that you must buy his swords in order to progress, and if you really want to train with him, then that's what you have to do. Otherwise, it's simply better to find a different teacher.

I'm a uni student. I can't afford the costs of martial arts training anymore. They now all charge $15 a lesson. This can provide me with lunch for 3 days; heck, after 3 lessons I spend the same as buying a text book for a subject! (this fee is PLUS a yearly membership fee ($180), insurance, uniform, etc etc!!! OMG!

First, and foremost, if you do not mind my asking, where are you located?

Assuming that you train twice a week, this works out to 150+ each month for tuition and membership fees. The uniform is a one time charge, I'd imagine, so I'm not even factoring it into those costs.

As to whether or not this is a fair deal, depends on your area, and what the school provides. If there are no other martial arts schools in the area, and if the chief instructor is a top notch instructor, and gives a lot of one on one teaching, then perhaps it's not such a bad deal.

However, I find it difficult to believe, especially at an academic university setting, that other martial arts schools are not present. If anything, you should look within and outside of the university, for various schools in your area. Almost all universities have a day where various clubs and organizations can set up displays and exhibitions, and you can often times find something there.

Also, use the Yellow Pages.

Not only do I not have time to make classes, i now find i struggle to afford them. In fact, after learning very little after a lessson, I QUESTION THE COST EFFECTIVENESS OF A CLASS. Time to quit martial arts????

Unless the school in question holds a virtual monopoly over all martial arts teaching in the area (highly unlikely), I'm sure you can find some sort of school. If you like the martial arts, try your darndest to find a school to your liking. Now that you've stated that you don't feel like you're learning much from the training, it may very well be a better indicator that it's time to move on to a different martial arts school.

 

[arnisador]

Yet, we have let many students on hard times train for free or to rack up a bill, their choice, and in the end they do not value what they have learned, and do not stay. Those who showed up and paid, and trained, and wanted to be there, all the time, were the ones who became the good instructors, or good practitioners.

It took me longer to realize this than I care to admit, but it's very true. Those who study for free are too much more likely to choose not to come on a given day, or to drop out, than those who pay. There are exceptions, but they're rarer than I would've thought. If people don't pay for it, they don't value it as highly. I now firmly believe that having some (possibly small) charge is important, for classes or for a seminar.

Yes, starting a training club is a good idea!

 

[still learning]

Hello, Yes today many people charge lots of money for you to learn the "arts"

Please keeping looking? You may find someone who loves to teach and has very low fees. Anything new is worth learning. ...........Aloha

 

[Shizen Shigoku]

Another thing to factor in to the decision is one's goals.


Personally, I just like training. I'm not looking for state-of-the art $uper-valuable martial "secrets." I don't care whether I'm training in a big fancy facility or in someone's back yard. I seek out instructors that charge little-to-nothing (not only because I'm a cheapskate, but I prefer people that do MAs for the love of the art and not for $$ - the training tends to be better quality in my experience too).

If nothing else, you can still practice the kata you already know over and over again in your bedroom.

The world is your dojo.