Modern Arnis and Soke Boards

[Dan Anderson]

To everyone else,

It's 1:00 am in Dallas and I am working on a friend's laptop of which I am thoroughly unfamiliar). Thank you for your well wishing. As many of you know, MA80 is my branch of Modern Arnis.

Originally I looked at is my clarification of what Prof. Remy taught. Over the years it has morphed into somewhat of a "Remy based Dan-arnis." It has far more Dan-isms in it now that I would have thought it would have. Last year I had an epiphany when I was in the UK. I was at the point in my development of MA80 where if he were still alive, I would buck up and disagree with Remy were he to say what I was doing was wrong. This was huge.

It also helped that MA80 was recognized as a legitimate branch of Modern Arnis in the PI.

A friend of mine once told me that in the Philippines if one were a master of at least two systems and had over 20 years in each, he could up and declare himself a grandmaster. I told him that I was a bit old fashioned in that I would not up and declare something like that but instead would rather have that be recognized by others.

In personal emails sent to me by some members of the WHOFSC I am already referred to as "GM Dan." I look at the idea of "GM-ship" (to coin a phrase) as another harmonic of 1st degree black belt. Does learning end at 1st degree? Never has and never will for me. Anyway, it's getting late and I am about to ramble. Later.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[arnisador]

I hve been to the first two WMAA summer camps and was on the floor for both of them, providing ample opportunity for all WMAA people to see my skill sets.

Heh, Mr. Anderson moved much too fast for me to be able to judge his skill!

I can't believe anyone seriously doubts whether Mr. Anderson is the real deal. I understand (and share) the concern about "Soke boards" but that's a separate issue.

 

[Dan Anderson]

I understand (and share) the concern about "Soke boards" but that's a separate issue.

Brian & Arnisador,

Thanks.

As to the concern, well, I can totally understand that. One of the points of contention is the name itself. I'll ask why the term "Sokeship" is used. I'll bet it's because the founders of thata organization either have ties to Japan or trained in Japanese or Okinawna arts. That's my think.

Regarding going before a council - the rub is that we live in America, the land of non-tradition. This group, as well as a number of other groups, consists of independent senior martial artists. As I said before I have been in the martial arts for 41 years. I'm senior to a great many practitoners out there. A number of these guys are senior to me. I would absolutely love if Remy could come back among us and say, "Surprise! I faked it all just to see what you would do in my absense. You have one day to prepare. Re-examinations begin tomorrow." THAT would be cool. In the absense of that one goes the way that best suits him/her.

I do not give myself numerical rank or titles. I didn't even give myself the nickname of Super Dan back in the 70's (anybody remember that far back?). Going in front of a board is more comfortable for me. All for now.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[The Last Legionary]

1 Dan-o, I don't believe I've ever questioned your skill. Just the ranking path here. I've got no beefs with your skill.


2 "So Many Think" is a reference to a number of discussions I've read elsewhere that regard the FMA and Modern Arnis specifically, poorly. I can't link to the main site, but it starts with a bull.


3 "Sokes, Soke Boards, etc" These I do have a beef with, as I, and many others, find the use of a traditional Japanese title by a non-Japanese in a non-Japanese system to be fraudulent and disrespectful. Contrary to the lies spread by the egos who abuse it, "Soke" does not mean simply "Founder" nor does it mean "Grandmaster". So please Dan, if they knight you a soke, don't dis the culture and use founder or gm instead.

4 "Rank Board 'tests'" tend to be the "send in a video that we'll never watch and your check and we'll send you your certificate as soon as someone gets back from Office Max with the ink-jet paper". If this group is actually gonna make you sweat, and I don't mean in the executive sauna way, then maybe they'll go up a notch in my view. I still stand by my view on the disrespectful nature of their name however.

5 "Who Am I" My information is in my profile. My instructors vary, currently I'm studying Europe arts. In the past 20 years, Japanese, Chinese, Okinawan and Filipino arts.

6 "Mastery". I disagree. I believe to recognize mastery in something, one must first be a master in it. I doubt a master ship builder is qualified to recognize a master surgeon. I doubt a master actor is qualified to recognize a master makeup artist, and I doubt a master fly fisherman is qualified to recognize a master baiter. So why would a master of TKD, which has no stick techniques, be qualified to determine mastery in a stick art such as Modern Arnis?

7 "Do I like you?" I don't know you personally so I have no opinion there. Professionally, I don't dislike you, though I do question some of your actions and it's not my way to pussyfoot around things.

8 "Why do I call you Dan-o"? Because calling you "Mr. Anderson" might get people confused and think you're that kid from the Matrix. :rofl:

9 Thank you for taking this inquisition in a positive way and clearing things up. Good luck on your test.
:asian:

 

[Dan Anderson]

1 Dan-o, I don't believe I've ever questioned your skill. Just the ranking path here. I've got no beefs with your skill.


2 "So Many Think" is a reference to a number of discussions I've read elsewhere that regard the FMA and Modern Arnis specifically, poorly. I can't link to the main site, but it starts with a bull.


3 "Sokes, Soke Boards, etc" These I do have a beef with, as I, and many others, find the use of a traditional Japanese title by a non-Japanese in a non-Japanese system to be fraudulent and disrespectful. Contrary to the lies spread by the egos who abuse it, "Soke" does not mean simply "Founder" nor does it mean "Grandmaster". So please Dan, if they knight you a soke, don't dis the culture and use founder or gm instead.

4 "Rank Board 'tests'" tend to be the "send in a video that we'll never watch and your check and we'll send you your certificate as soon as someone gets back from Office Max with the ink-jet paper". If this group is actually gonna make you sweat, and I don't mean in the executive sauna way, then maybe they'll go up a notch in my view. I still stand by my view on the disrespectful nature of their name however.

5 "Who Am I" My information is in my profile. My instructors vary, currently I'm studying Europe arts. In the past 20 years, Japanese, Chinese, Okinawan and Filipino arts.

6 "Mastery". I disagree. I believe to recognize mastery in something, one must first be a master in it. I doubt a master ship builder is qualified to recognize a master surgeon. I doubt a master actor is qualified to recognize a master makeup artist, and I doubt a master fly fisherman is qualified to recognize a master baiter. So why would a master of TKD, which has no stick techniques, be qualified to determine mastery in a stick art such as Modern Arnis?

7 "Do I like you?" I don't know you personally so I have no opinion there. Professionally, I don't dislike you, though I do question some of your actions and it's not my way to pussyfoot around things.

8 "Why do I call you Dan-o"? Because calling you "Mr. Anderson" might get people confused and think you're that kid from the Matrix. :rofl:

9 Thank you for taking this inquisition in a positive way and clearing things up. Good luck on your test.
:asian:

Legionary,

1. Understood. My last post should exxplain my position.

2. Ahhh, *********. (I wrote the actual name and then saw it filled with asterisks - oh well) They certainly have their likes and dislikes, don't they.

3. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't "Soke" have more to do with an inheritor of a system from a founder or grandmaster? Actually, I plan to continue using the title "Professor" (which has raised a bit of a **** storm in the past). Perhaps once I feel comfortable with it, then GM. But it's Professor to my clan and Dan to the rest, just as it has been for years.

4. From everything I have been told, sweat is going to be a requirement on this one. Like I said, Bram's was rough and rugged and he told me that there are slam 'n' jammers on the board so I am not expecting a tea social.

5. Fair enough.

6. I understand your disagreement but your examples are of dissimilar activities. I am talking about martial arts here and martial arts has one common goal - self protection. It has a common ground - use of the whole body in order to attain that goal. There are only so many ways to move the body. There are only a handful of underlying principles to the martial arts. As one achieves mastery one can recognize if another is operating on principles or personal attributes. Like I said, one might not the curriculum but one can know the principles and recognize if they are being used or not.

7. Fair enough. Agreement is not a requirement for discussion.

8. Ahhh, a sense of humor. But using Dan-o might get me confused withe Jack Lord's side kick in the TV series "Hawaii 5-0." Gads, I'm really showing my age!!!

9. Thank you and thanks for the spirited exchange.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[The Last Legionary]

For Soke information, you can check here.
http://www.martialtalk.net/wiki/index.php/Soke

It's a bit short, but a good start.

As to the Hawaii-5-0 ref, was a good show, but no one would ever confuse you with Jack Lord. He has hair. (That's a joke. I'm as bald as Kojak myself) :rofl:

 

[Dan Anderson]

Thanks for the reference.

Yours,
Dan

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Dan-o,
I'm bery confused.

Earlier in this string you said "1980 is the year I began training." but just now you said "did I forget to say this is the first test I've taken in 28 years?". 2008-28=1980.

So, you have never tested for any rank in Modern Arnis? Remy just gave you a rank cert? No wonder so many people look at Arnis as a ****ing joke.

Also, what art are you 'testing' to be a grandmaster in? Your karate system? Not your "MA80" style, since you just said you had no tested rank in Arnis. Or are you now teaching Japanese arts to become a "Soke"?


For the record, I'm of the "Only a Japanese teacher of a tradtional Japanese art is a legitimate Soke, all others are frauds" school of thought. Too many white wanna-bes buying credibility to fleese the sheeple out there in my not so subtle opinion.

I'm in Atlantic City this weekend for a seminar and tournament, so I'll be brief.

LL-
If Dan wants to test to become a GM in front of the Soke council, that's his right. So we are on the same page I'm not endorsing his decision just his right to make it. Personally I'm not down with the council thing, but I'm not the one testing to become a GM. I would recommend minding your own business and let Dan do his thing.

 

[MJS]

The following is just my opinion. Looking at a few posts, a couple of things came to mind.

Is MA80 its own entity? Sure. Its a branch that Dan set up that he is in charge of.

Does everyone understand the seperate orgs? Probably not. So this means that its possible to lump all Arnis into one. Kinda like the saying, "One bad apple spoils the bunch." So if someone sees something odd, such as a real high rank, a high title, etc., its possible for someone to think that everyone in Arnis is like that.

I think another concern for some is the use of titles. I mean hell, we have people, who shall remain nameless, but I'm sure some will know who I'm talking about, that run around saying they're the successor to Remy. Some even gave themselves the title of Professor. Are these people really the successor? Do they really deserve the title Professor? What about GM? Are these titles legit? Were they authorized by Remy? Or did someone take advantage of the man while he was on his death bed?

Maybe some will go ooohhh and ahhhh when they see someone with a fancy title, but it really doesnt phase me at all. I've never questioned anyones skill..I question the use of the title. Title, belts, all the fancy wine dressing...that isn't what matters to me. What matters to me is the persons skill, how well they know the art, can they teach it, can they apply it...those are the things that I look for.

Are Sokeship Councils legit? Dont really know and frankly I dont care, because I have not and will not go to one for any rank. One thing that always made me wonder about things like that is...do people from the art you're seeking rank in, actually sit on the panel or do you have a bunch of people who know nothing about the art? In other words...I could care less if you had a high ranking JKD guy, a high ranking TKD guy or a high ranking Kenpo guy. If they are not qualified in or ranked in Arnis, what the hell business do they have giving rank in an art they know nothing about? That'd be like me sitting on a TKD exam board. I know zero about TKD...how could I rank someone?

I suppose that anyone is free to do as they choose. In the end, its that person that has to live with the decision.

 

[The Last Legionary]

I'm in Atlantic City this weekend for a seminar and tournament, so I'll be brief.

LL-
If Dan wants to test to become a GM in front of the Soke council, that's his right. So we are on the same page I'm not endorsing his decision just his right to make it. Personally I'm not down with the council thing, but I'm not the one testing to become a GM. I would recommend minding your own business and let Dan do his thing.

Tim, you're right, it's his right to do as he sees fit. However I don't think you're one to talk about promotions, all things considered.

 

[Dan Anderson]

The following is just my opinion. Looking at a few posts, a couple of things came to mind.

Is MA80 its own entity? Sure. Its a branch that Dan set up that he is in charge of.

Does everyone understand the seperate orgs? Probably not. So this means that its possible to lump all Arnis into one. Kinda like the saying, "One bad apple spoils the bunch." So if someone sees something odd, such as a real high rank, a high title, etc., its possible for someone to think that everyone in Arnis is like that.

I think another concern for some is the use of titles. I mean hell, we have people, who shall remain nameless, but I'm sure some will know who I'm talking about, that run around saying they're the successor to Remy. Some even gave themselves the title of Professor. Are these people really the successor? Do they really deserve the title Professor? What about GM? Are these titles legit? Were they authorized by Remy? Or did someone take advantage of the man while he was on his death bed?

Maybe some will go ooohhh and ahhhh when they see someone with a fancy title, but it really doesnt phase me at all. I've never questioned anyones skill..I question the use of the title. Title, belts, all the fancy wine dressing...that isn't what matters to me. What matters to me is the persons skill, how well they know the art, can they teach it, can they apply it...those are the things that I look for.

Are Sokeship Councils legit? Dont really know and frankly I dont care, because I have not and will not go to one for any rank. One thing that always made me wonder about things like that is...do people from the art you're seeking rank in, actually sit on the panel or do you have a bunch of people who know nothing about the art? In other words...I could care less if you had a high ranking JKD guy, a high ranking TKD guy or a high ranking Kenpo guy. If they are not qualified in or ranked in Arnis, what the hell business do they have giving rank in an art they know nothing about? That'd be like me sitting on a TKD exam board. I know zero about TKD...how could I rank someone?

I suppose that anyone is free to do as they choose. In the end, its that person that has to live with the decision.

Hey Mike,

Good post. To me, titles are harmonics of a numerical ranking. I do agree with you that A. in the end skill, knowledge, attitude and how to instruct are the important things and B. one lives with the decisions one makes.

Yours,
Dan

 

[Dan Anderson]

Hi All,

Back in Dallas. The event went well and the testing for induction onto the council went even better. It took roughly an hour and was split up into two parts: oral and physical. Any of you who know me will know I have no problems being shy explaining any point of view that I have: technical, philosophical, historical or what not. The physical presentation I felt went very well. I was prepared mentally, was quite confident and I believe it showed.

My thanks to my partner from Dallas, Don Kerstetter and my CSSD/SC brother Shuki Dray from Florida. Don began training wth RP back in 1983 and is originally from Tennessee (for those of you old camp guys to remember him) and now trains with me. Shuki is Bram Frank's longest continuously training student dating back to... I forget when but he's been around Bram the longest and has the best historical perspective of Bram's knife work. They were not only quite willing to participate in it with me but neither of them are direct students of mine so they moved differently enough to keep me on my toes and in present to shift gears when they did something off beat. I like when that happens. Good stuff.

Aside from the induction onto the council I, along with the amazing Don Jacobs from Trinidad (see this guy if you can - amazing), I was also presented with the Grand Master of the Year 2008 award. This was totally unexpected and was very kind that Bram nominated me for it.

So, in the long run what does this mean to me? Acknowledgement. One thing that is so underrated is the power of a simple acknowledgement. This is something I learned in my Scientology training many years ago. A couple of examples of acknowledgements: I remember at the first WMAA camp, Jeff Leader mentioning in passing that he liked the fact that I was out there on the floor training along with eveyone else (the lower ranking belts) and that meant a lot. The same comment was made by a number of people when I was in the Philippines where I was an instructor for my own classes. I was till out there training in other people's classes. Both of them were acknowledgements of an action taken. Rather than looking into them for any kind of hidden meanings or motives it was just a statement noting what was done. "Hey, you wuz on do floor and sweated, too."

Another great acknowledgment was being accepted by Manong Ted Buot as a student. He recognized that I was being sincere in my desire to learn balintawak eskrima. Acknowledgements are powerful things.

This is what this examination was to me. I have been in the martial arts for 41 years. My credentials are pretty strong - both in karate and arnis. I have nothing to prove to anybody. But rather than have that as a "you can kiss my ***" attitude, I fully recognize that I have a long way to go. I think a skilled practitioner knows not only his strong points but also knows his limitations. He keeps his strong points well oiled and his limitations gives him something to continue to work on. I also keep in mind that I have seniors. There are people out there who have been in the martial arts longer than I have and some longer than I have been alive. To receive an acknowledgement like this from my seniors is special.

All in all, it has been a very good weekend and when I get home I'll catch up on the sleep I've missed.

I'll post some pictures when I get them from Shuki. All for now.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[arnisador]

Congratulations to you! That's great.

 

[Dieter]

Congratulations Dan.
Well deserved.

Dieter

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Congratulations Dan and you are right you can definately explain your point of view.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Brian,

Thanks.

Dieter,

Missed you. Had a great time.

Dan

 

[Guro Harold]

Congratulations, Dan!!!

Job well done!

-Harold

 

[The Last Legionary]

Hi All,

Back in Dallas. The event went well and the testing for induction onto the council went even better. It took roughly an hour and was split up into two parts: oral and physical. Any of you who know me will know I have no problems being shy explaining any point of view that I have: technical, philosophical, historical or what not. The physical presentation I felt went very well. I was prepared mentally, was quite confident and I believe it showed.

My thanks to my partner from Dallas, Don Kerstetter and my CSSD/SC brother Shuki Dray from Florida. Don began training wth RP back in 1983 and is originally from Tennessee (for those of you old camp guys to remember him) and now trains with me. Shuki is Bram Frank's longest continuously training student dating back to... I forget when but he's been around Bram the longest and has the best historical perspective of Bram's knife work. They were not only quite willing to participate in it with me but neither of them are direct students of mine so they moved differently enough to keep me on my toes and in present to shift gears when they did something off beat. I like when that happens. Good stuff.

Aside from the induction onto the council I, along with the amazing Don Jacobs from Trinidad (see this guy if you can - amazing), I was also presented with the Grand Master of the Year 2008 award. This was totally unexpected and was very kind that Bram nominated me for it.

So, in the long run what does this mean to me? Acknowledgement. One thing that is so underrated is the power of a simple acknowledgement. This is something I learned in my Scientology training many years ago. A couple of examples of acknowledgements: I remember at the first WMAA camp, Jeff Leader mentioning in passing that he liked the fact that I was out there on the floor training along with eveyone else (the lower ranking belts) and that meant a lot. The same comment was made by a number of people when I was in the Philippines where I was an instructor for my own classes. I was till out there training in other people's classes. Both of them were acknowledgements of an action taken. Rather than looking into them for any kind of hidden meanings or motives it was just a statement noting what was done. "Hey, you wuz on do floor and sweated, too."

Another great acknowledgment was being accepted by Manong Ted Buot as a student. He recognized that I was being sincere in my desire to learn balintawak eskrima. Acknowledgements are powerful things.

This is what this examination was to me. I have been in the martial arts for 41 years. My credentials are pretty strong - both in karate and arnis. I have nothing to prove to anybody. But rather than have that as a "you can kiss my ***" attitude, I fully recognize that I have a long way to go. I think a skilled practitioner knows not only his strong points but also knows his limitations. He keeps his strong points well oiled and his limitations gives him something to continue to work on. I also keep in mind that I have seniors. There are people out there who have been in the martial arts longer than I have and some longer than I have been alive. To receive an acknowledgement like this from my seniors is special.

All in all, it has been a very good weekend and when I get home I'll catch up on the sleep I've missed.

I'll post some pictures when I get them from Shuki. All for now.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

Dan,
First a congratulations. Showing what you've got and being recognized for it is a wonderful thing.

I do have a question though. What does this all do for you other than pad an all ready respectible resume a bit with some extra fluff?

 

[MJS]

Hey Mike,

Good post. To me, titles are harmonics of a numerical ranking. I do agree with you that A. in the end skill, knowledge, attitude and how to instruct are the important things and B. one lives with the decisions one makes.

Yours,
Dan

Hi All,

Back in Dallas. The event went well and the testing for induction onto the council went even better. It took roughly an hour and was split up into two parts: oral and physical. Any of you who know me will know I have no problems being shy explaining any point of view that I have: technical, philosophical, historical or what not. The physical presentation I felt went very well. I was prepared mentally, was quite confident and I believe it showed.

My thanks to my partner from Dallas, Don Kerstetter and my CSSD/SC brother Shuki Dray from Florida. Don began training wth RP back in 1983 and is originally from Tennessee (for those of you old camp guys to remember him) and now trains with me. Shuki is Bram Frank's longest continuously training student dating back to... I forget when but he's been around Bram the longest and has the best historical perspective of Bram's knife work. They were not only quite willing to participate in it with me but neither of them are direct students of mine so they moved differently enough to keep me on my toes and in present to shift gears when they did something off beat. I like when that happens. Good stuff.

Aside from the induction onto the council I, along with the amazing Don Jacobs from Trinidad (see this guy if you can - amazing), I was also presented with the Grand Master of the Year 2008 award. This was totally unexpected and was very kind that Bram nominated me for it.

So, in the long run what does this mean to me? Acknowledgement. One thing that is so underrated is the power of a simple acknowledgement. This is something I learned in my Scientology training many years ago. A couple of examples of acknowledgements: I remember at the first WMAA camp, Jeff Leader mentioning in passing that he liked the fact that I was out there on the floor training along with eveyone else (the lower ranking belts) and that meant a lot. The same comment was made by a number of people when I was in the Philippines where I was an instructor for my own classes. I was till out there training in other people's classes. Both of them were acknowledgements of an action taken. Rather than looking into them for any kind of hidden meanings or motives it was just a statement noting what was done. "Hey, you wuz on do floor and sweated, too."

Another great acknowledgment was being accepted by Manong Ted Buot as a student. He recognized that I was being sincere in my desire to learn balintawak eskrima. Acknowledgements are powerful things.

This is what this examination was to me. I have been in the martial arts for 41 years. My credentials are pretty strong - both in karate and arnis. I have nothing to prove to anybody. But rather than have that as a "you can kiss my ***" attitude, I fully recognize that I have a long way to go. I think a skilled practitioner knows not only his strong points but also knows his limitations. He keeps his strong points well oiled and his limitations gives him something to continue to work on. I also keep in mind that I have seniors. There are people out there who have been in the martial arts longer than I have and some longer than I have been alive. To receive an acknowledgement like this from my seniors is special.

All in all, it has been a very good weekend and when I get home I'll catch up on the sleep I've missed.

I'll post some pictures when I get them from Shuki. All for now.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

Hey Dan,

Well, overall it sounds like you had a nice time. One thing in your above post that caught my eye specifically was when you spoke of acknowledgement. Now, perhaps I'm reading this wrong, and God knows, misunderstandings happen all the time online, so that may be another case here, but were you not getting acknowledgement prior to this trip? I mean, anyone who has been around for a while should know of you, either from your karate days or your time in Arnis. Basically what I'm asking is...does acknowledgement require a fancy title or is skill alone enough to acknowledge someone?

Mike

 

[Dan Anderson]

Hey Dan,

Well, overall it sounds like you had a nice time. One thing in your above post that caught my eye specifically was when you spoke of acknowledgement. Now, perhaps I'm reading this wrong, and God knows, misunderstandings happen all the time online, so that may be another case here, but were you not getting acknowledgement prior to this trip? I mean, anyone who has been around for a while should know of you, either from your karate days or your time in Arnis. Basically what I'm asking is...does acknowledgement require a fancy title or is skill alone enough to acknowledge someone?

Mike

Hey Mike,

Was I not getting acknowledgement prior to the trip. Yes, mostly from peers and juniors. From seniors, not really. They have better things to do than to follow my career. "Does acknowledgement require a fancy title or is skill alone enough to acknowledge someone?" REQUIRE? No. Do I appreciate it? Yes. It's like the difference between knowing you are good enough to be a black belt and undergoing the test and becoming a black belt.

Yours,
Dan