Mental health and martial arts

[Rhea]

I've made this thread to see if anyone has any tips on coping and to share experiences of training in a martial art when you have 'mental health issues'.

I have severe depression. Severe to the point that I've tried to no longer be here (hopefully that's all behind me now).
Part of the depression brings almost a constant retorick in my head about what I'm doing wrong.
Imaging your conscious voice constantly telling you 'you can't do this, failure, you should be able to get lower, why cant you remember the name of that stance idiot'.
The constant thoughts reduces my short term memory to nothing. I have to rely on following what the person infront is doing because as soon as I'm told what to do, I forget.
It also affects my recall of memory, meaning basic basics I forget, I mentally beat myself up and the cycle continues.

Does anyone have any tips of ways of coping?

Has anyone else ever experienced this?

Has anyone ever had a senior student who suddenly can't remember basic stances?

 

[Touch Of Death]

I've made this thread to see if anyone has any tips on coping and to share experiences of training in a martial art when you have 'mental health issues'.

I have severe depression. Severe to the point that I've tried to no longer be here (hopefully that's all behind me now).
Part of the depression brings almost a constant retorick in my head about what I'm doing wrong.
Imaging your conscious voice constantly telling you 'you can't do this, failure, you should be able to get lower, why cant you remember the name of that stance idiot'.
The constant thoughts reduces my short term memory to nothing. I have to rely on following what the person infront is doing because as soon as I'm told what to do, I forget.
It also affects my recall of memory, meaning basic basics I forget, I mentally beat myself up and the cycle continues.

Does anyone have any tips of ways of coping?

Has anyone else ever experienced this?

Has anyone ever had a senior student who suddenly can't remember basic stances?

I am not subject to any mental illness, but I am aware a the benefits of the martial arts. First of all, you must think in terms of fitness. There are five basic fitness: Mental; Emotional; Physical; Perceptual; and Spiritual (Your Will). So as you have experienced, when one is down, it takes all the other down with it. I think the first step, is to be aware of this, and, of course, not beat your self up over it. That being said, you just described my entire martial arts upbringing. I didn't know how to listen. But I think you are in the right place. I am a much better listener, now. Were you saying something? Oh, anyways, keep it up, and keep going. You just might be surprised at how well it goes. Pulling yourself up with physical fitness is something you can readily control.

 

[lklawson]

Does anyone have any tips of ways of coping?

Honestly, the stuff that your Counselor or Mental Health Treatment Professional is telling you is the right thing. (You are seeing one, right?) It's probably the usual litany of "you really can, just keep trying and keep deliberately telling yourself that you can." But that's the right stuff. I assume you're also under the care of a psychiatrist who has prescribed a pharmacological assistance. Keep taking those. Don't stop unless your Dr. directs you to do so even if you're feeling "pretty good" and feel like you "have a handle on it" now. But also don't think of it as an immediate cure-all. Anti-depressants, according to the professionals, can only get you about 40% there. The rest is just hard work by you, including reinforcing patterns of positive self-talk and reframing.

Has anyone else ever experienced this?

Me? No. Family members? Yes. Close friends? Yes. Add in that She Who Must Be Obeyed (my wife) is a professional, Board Certified, Stated Licensed, Mental Health Counselor, and I do have some direct observational experience. Most of it, however, not to the severity of suicide.

Has anyone ever had a senior student who suddenly can't remember basic stances?

Dude, that's just being human. If I had a nickle for every time that I've had a mind blank or a brain fart in Judo, Aikido, Bowie Knife, or any of the other arts that I have in the past or still today study, it'd be me running for president on my own dime, not Trump!

She Who Must Be Obeyed says (professionally speaking) that "Normal is just a setting on the drier." But mind blanking at the most frustrating, embarrassing, or high stress moments possibly afforded by good ol' Murphy is just being normal.

Keep at it. Keep practicing. Keep up the positive self talk, even if it feels "forced." If you need to, make flash cards and stick them around your house. Don't "test" yourself on them, just look at them and use it to reinforce the information already in your brain.

In short, you totally CAN do this.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[drop bear]

I found this story interesting. Mabye it will be helpful.

Eleanor Longden: The voices in my head | TED Talk | TED.com

Otherwise martial arts is being used to help symptoms of PTSD. Mabye find one of those schools.

 

[Rhea]

I am not subject to any mental illness, but I am aware a the benefits of the martial arts. First of all, you must think in terms of fitness. There are five basic fitness: Mental; Emotional; Physical; Perceptual; and Spiritual (Your Will). So as you have experienced, when one is down, it takes all the other down with it. I think the first step, is to be aware of this, and, of course, not beat your self up over it. That being said, you just described my entire martial arts upbringing. I didn't know how to listen. But I think you are in the right place. I am a much better listener, now. Were you saying something? Oh, anyways, keep it up, and keep going. You just might be surprised at how well it goes. Pulling yourself up with physical fitness is something you can readily control.

Thank you.
It can be quite hard to physically keep active.
I've come across some very nasty attitudes towards my depression, from the 'it doesnt exist, your just lazy' to 'if you just tried harder' and as hurtfully far to an instructor discussing his opinion on people with depression being cowards openly in class.

 

[Rhea]

Honestly, the stuff that your Counselor or Mental Health Treatment Professional is telling you is the right thing. (You are seeing one, right?) It's probably the usual litany of "you really can, just keep trying and keep deliberately telling yourself that you can." But that's the right stuff. I assume you're also under the care of a psychiatrist who has prescribed a pharmacological assistance. Keep taking those. Don't stop unless your Dr. directs you to do so even if you're feeling "pretty good" and feel like you "have a handle on it" now. But also don't think of it as an immediate cure-all. Anti-depressants, according to the professionals, can only get you about 40% there. The rest is just hard work by you, including reinforcing patterns of positive self-talk and reframing.

Me? No. Family members? Yes. Close friends? Yes. Add in that She Who Must Be Obeyed (my wife) is a professional, Board Certified, Stated Licensed, Mental Health Counselor, and I do have some direct observational experience. Most of it, however, not to the severity of suicide.

Dude, that's just being human. If I had a nickle for every time that I've had a mind blank or a brain fart in Judo, Aikido, Bowie Knife, or any of the other arts that I have in the past or still today study, it'd be me running for president on my own dime, not Trump!

She Who Must Be Obeyed says (professionally speaking) that "Normal is just a setting on the drier." But mind blanking at the most frustrating, embarrassing, or high stress moments possibly afforded by good ol' Murphy is just being normal.

Keep at it. Keep practicing. Keep up the positive self talk, even if it feels "forced." If you need to, make flash cards and stick them around your house. Don't "test" yourself on them, just look at them and use it to reinforce the information already in your brain.

In short, you totally CAN do this.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I am seeing a cbt counsellor, but I've been through quite a few steps of therapy already that I suspect if this doesn't work I'll just be discharged.
I'm not under psychiatity, only my GP who has prescribed anti depressants. Where i'm from accessing mental health support is difficult and has long waiting lists.

I think because I've faced quite nasty attitudes in martial arts it's set up ideas that need to be broken.
I've moved from a club that had the atmosphere of 'if you dont suceed, you're not committed and not worth training'.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Thank you.
It can be quite hard to physically keep active.
I've come across some very nasty attitudes towards my depression, from the 'it doesnt exist, your just lazy' to 'if you just tried harder' and as hurtfully far to an instructor discussing his opinion on people with depression being cowards openly in class.

Having been in the military, I can see the benefits of the, "Shut up, and get it done!", attitude. I won't tell you to stay and get abused. You may be in the wrong place, but it is supposed to take you way out of your comfort zone. It is a tough call, from my couch, here.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Due to the size of the school, and a limited availability of qualified instructors, it is not uncommon for a school to set a standard, and stick with it. No special cases; sink or swim. Is it cold? Yes. Is it business savvy? Yes.

 

[Tez3]

Rhea, are you in the UK by any chance? If so I may know some places and people who can help.

 

[Balrog]

I've made this thread to see if anyone has any tips on coping and to share experiences of training in a martial art when you have 'mental health issues'.

I have severe depression.

Me, too. Almost manic in a way; I'll be sailing along through life and suddenly feel like I've been buried under a tsunami of the blues. And Taekwondo has been a saving grace for me. When I feel down, I work out even harder. The endorphin release from the exercise is a natural counter to depression, and I can take my satisfaction from having improved my form or my timing or whatever and ride that back up to the top again.

Good luck to you. I hope you find your way back up to the top again!

 

[lklawson]

I am seeing a cbt counsellor, but I've been through quite a few steps of therapy already that I suspect if this doesn't work I'll just be discharged.
I'm not under psychiatity, only my GP who has prescribed anti depressants. Where i'm from accessing mental health support is difficult and has long waiting lists.

I think because I've faced quite nasty attitudes in martial arts it's set up ideas that need to be broken.
I've moved from a club that had the atmosphere of 'if you dont suceed, you're not committed and not worth training'.

OK. I'm not a Counselor, but I can tell you with fair certainty that "positive and reinforcing 'self-talk'" is absolutely CRITICAL to your particular emotional recovery. I'm, quite literally, talking the "Stuart Smalley" type stuff: "I'M GOOD ENOUGH, I'M SMART ENOUGH, AND DOGGONE IT, PEOPLE LIKE ME!" For most folks it's a laugh. For you it's necessary to help combat the negative "constant retorick in [your] head about what [you're] doing wrong." Write this stuff down new and fresh every day. Keep a blank post-it note pad. Every morning get up and write a positive message about yourself on it. Then read it allowed to yourself. Post it somewhere where you will see it several times a day. Change the message every day but always keep it positive: "I look good." "I'm smart." "People like me." "People appreciate my hard work." That sort of thing. I know it sounds goofy, but it really does work.

Also, the "reframe" is very useful. If you are feeling "bad" about something, find a way to turn it around into a positive. Take, "My legs started shaking after only 5 minutes standing in Horse Riding Stance" and change it to, "When I started, I could only stand in Horse Riding Stance for 30 seconds before falling down, now I can stand that way for FIVE MINUTES!!! Yay ME!" This also combats the negative internal dialogue.

Those are the only techniques which She Who Must Be Obeyed has passed on to me that I can dredge out of my memory at the moment. If anything else percolates to the top, I'll post it up.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[JowGaWolf]

From a science point of view exercise releases natural chemicals and hormones that help you feel better. So in that light if you can get a strong workout and often then you can keep those chemicals at a level where it will at least reduce the symptoms of depression. There are also foods that help in this area too so the combination of those foods and exercise you may be able to sustain and produce naturally a high level of these chemicals and hormones.
The reason why I say that this is possible because some people are "addicted to going to gym." It's not the gym they are addicted to, it's the chemicals and hormones that the body is producing that they are addicted to. It makes them feel good.

I personally don't deal with depression at the level that you speak of, but if it wasn't for martial arts then I would be in bad shape. It would eventually wear me down to the point where I don't want to do anything. Martial arts is the one thing I can do where I can lose myself, stay healthy, get stronger, and completely forget about my problems for 2 hours. It's definitely my stress management outlet.

 

[Rhea]

Rhea, are you in the UK by any chance? If so I may know some places and people who can help.

Yes, i'm in the uk

 

[Tez3]

Thought you might be, with the spelling etc. I will PM you

 

[Buka]

Thank you.
It can be quite hard to physically keep active.
I've come across some very nasty attitudes towards my depression, from the 'it doesnt exist, your just lazy' to 'if you just tried harder' and as hurtfully far to an instructor discussing his opinion on people with depression being cowards openly in class.

Rhea, I'm sorry you have been subjected to your Instructor's attitude towards depression, especially out loud in class. I also feel kind of bad for him being ignorant.

Hang in there, pal, it gets better.

 

[Rhea]

Due to the size of the school, and a limited availability of qualified instructors, it is not uncommon for a school to set a standard, and stick with it. No special cases; sink or swim. Is it cold? Yes. Is it business savvy? Yes.

That I fully understand and expect.
I don't want to be treat differently, I don't want standards to be relaxed because I'm having a bad day. I want to train on the same level as everyone else.

What i don't want is to be humiliated infront of everyone else that I've forgotton something or can't quite get a certain move that night. Now I've left that place hopefully I'll never experience that again.

 

[Rhea]

Me, too. Almost manic in a way; I'll be sailing along through life and suddenly feel like I've been buried under a tsunami of the blues. And Taekwondo has been a saving grace for me. When I feel down, I work out even harder. The endorphin release from the exercise is a natural counter to depression, and I can take my satisfaction from having improved my form or my timing or whatever and ride that back up to the top again.

Good luck to you. I hope you find your way back up to the top again!

Do you ever feel like you have to force yourself to train?
Like all the energy has just been drained out your body and just walking into the place is like your climbing everest, then realise you have an hour and half training aheadof you?

 

[Ironbear24]

I have depression and anxiety disorder. Martial arts has helped me deal with depression but as far as the anxiety goes it still kicks my *** often.

Before I took martial arts when I was 14 I was a very dorky and downright pathetic individual. My sense of self worth was pretty abbysmal and I felt I was just worthless. The reason for this thinking was because I had no self identity, I new my name of course, buy that who that person was.

At that age I saw everyone had their talents and these things they could take pride in, I had nothing at all I could take pride in. I was a very unathletic person as nothing peaked my interest and I was all around bad at everything I tried.

At least nerdy types were good at school but I was not even good at academics as I struggled to keep a 2.0 average. Then I found martial arts through my uncle and started training. I began to lose a lot of weight and become more in shape, but I didn't really start to take flight until I joined a Kenpo dojo.

The training I received in the kenpo dojo was very difficult and at times I felt like it was breaking me, physically and mentally. My attitude for this was to keep going. I showed promise in this and it was the only thing I had ever excelled in. I was not going to just give up because it was hard on me.

My sifu saw that I was growing fast and the other students saw this as well. I looked forward to each lesson even though it was so difficult on me because I knew that this was making me stronger, it was giving me a reason to take pride in myself.

Unfortunately my sifu became to ill to continue to run his establishment and the dojo was bought out by a Tae Kwon do dojo. I did not wish to go there because I saw it as an insult, it was not my sifu, therefore I wanted nothing to do with it.

I then moved away and since then continue to use kenpo to strenghten myself and combat my depression and anxiety problems.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Do you ever feel like you have to force yourself to train?
Like all the energy has just been drained out your body and just walking into the place is like your climbing everest, then realise you have an hour and half training aheadof you?

I think that is not limited to just you. It is hard to go, but you always feel better, after going.

I have depression and anxiety disorder. Martial arts has helped me deal with depression but as far as the anxiety goes it still kicks my *** often.

Before I took martial arts when I was 14 I was a very dorky and downright pathetic individual. My sense of self worth was pretty abbysmal and I felt I was just worthless. The reason for this thinking was because I had no self identity, I new my name of course, buy that who that person was.

At that age I saw everyone had their talents and these things they could take pride in, I had nothing at all I could take pride in. I was a very unathletic person as nothing peaked my interest and I was all around bad at everything I tried.

At least nerdy types were good at school but I was not even good at academics as I struggled to keep a 2.0 average. Then I found martial arts through my uncle and started training. I began to lose a lot of weight and become more in shape, but I didn't really start to take flight until I joined a Kenpo dojo.

The training I received in the kenpo dojo was very difficult and at times I felt like it was breaking me, physically and mentally. My attitude for this was to keep going. I showed promise in this and it was the only thing I had ever excelled in. I was not going to just give up because it was hard on me.

My sifu saw that I was growing fast and the other students saw this as well. I looked forward to each lesson even though it was so difficult on me because I knew that this was making me stronger, it was giving me a reason to take pride in myself.

Unfortunately my sifu became to ill to continue to run his establishment and the dojo was bought out by a Tae Kwon do dojo. I did not wish to go there because I saw it as an insult, it was not my sifu, therefore I wanted nothing to do with it.

I then moved away and since then continue to use kenpo to strenghten myself and combat my depression and anxiety problems.

Them is fighting words, on this site. LOL Perhaps you meant you just couldn't switch styles for "various" reasons.

 

[Ironbear24]

I didn't mean to sound as if I find Tae Kwon do itself to be insulting. It was more the fact that my old dojo was no longer and it was there in its place. I hated the fact that I could no longer learn from my dojo.

Tae Kwon do itself is a very impressive style and I admire its grace and flexibility.