Mc Dojo

[Steve]

i have a friend who is in JJ and is still a purple belt after 10 years. He doesnt feel he is ready to go any higher. I received my TKD Black Belt In 2 years. I dont know if that is realistic or not. I would like to believe that I am good at what I do but Im not wanting to be arogant either. It took me about 2 Years for my HKD Black as well.

I've been training for seven years and am a purple belt. I know guys who started within months of me who are now black belts. I'm not at all worried about it, and with one exception, I have no doubts that their promotions were well deserved. I wouldn't want a black belt I wasn't qualified to receive. I would rather wear the purple belt I've earned then a black belt I was given.

 

[ballen0351]

We have junior black belts but once you turn 17 and move to adult classes you start back at 5th kyu in the adult belt system. We have different belts for different age groups 6 to 8. 9 to 11 12 to 14 and 15 to 17. You can top out as a "black belt". At each belt lvl but when you move up you drop back in rank. Its not a money thing either we don't charge for belt testings. You do pay 4 bucks for your new belt that's it.

 

[GaryR]

You are very likely in a Mcdojo if

-the blackbelts cannot fight.

-they have no or little application training.

-the teacher can't fight

-people pay for belt testing (especially if they have many levels)

-Billy Blanks DVD's are running in the background

-Contracts are mandatory not optional

-The teacher claims to have secret techniques he will not show you before you sign up or reach a certain "level"

-The teacher rarely teaches, and lets the senior students run things

-they are franchised

-the teacher claims to be to deadly to go hands on with the students

 

[TheArtofDave]

Actually it would be nice to add "ineffective" fighting. Or even questionable fighting would be even better. Just because you're receiving instruction doesn't mean its the best instruction. Any instruction you take you need to make sure its not misidentified. Make sure your instructor doesn't misidentify themselves. Because that will hurt the instruction, your reputation, and also the instruction's reputation.

You're a McDojo if you run a questionable practice. Do not conduct yourself in a respectful manner. Hand out belts just to hand them out. Progression is rather simple and you do not get anything out of it. Fitness is important. But if you have to damage your reputation, and your business reputation as well as those around you who put faith into you then you definitely qualify as a mcdojo.

Teaching takes dedication and patience. Takes time to find your fit. However need to make sure you're not in a paper mill, nor are you wasting your time.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Back in the old days....when Dinosaurs walked the earth and fought in the ring, when Enter the Dragon was a new movie and Chuck Norris was a fighter...not an actor.... you could not get or even test for a black belt in Japanese Jiujitsu unless you were 18. You did not get to take every test that came up just because you were there so many months or weeks you could only test if the sensei said you were ready to test. There was no need for additional seminars or going to train other places.

Now if I use those as my standards then just about everything else out there today is a McDojos…. with a few exceptions

But I won’t because that would be silly, almost as silly as the copious threads on MT right now that are all about discussing McDojos....


In some cases it is legitimate but in others it is just another form of style bashing. There is an old thread out there, by steve actually, that if I can find it I will link it and I think it covers all of this very nicely...but be warned...you will need to have a since of humor...because if you don't have one you may be offended due to its lack of seriousness on the topic

 

[Xue Sheng]

Well that was much easier to find than I thought it would be

Warning, if you have a sense of humor click the link…if you don’t…you have been warned

I don't like your martial arts style...

 

[jasonbrinn]

Sorry but I don't have the time now to read this entire thread but I do feel compelled to respond right now. If I restate something I apologize.

I HATE the term McDojo. It is not a "real" term. McDojo comes most popularly from Bullshido which was originally called McDojo.com (it first showed up on the ADCC forum and the UG if any of you know what I am talking about). The term per their definition represents a school where there are long term contracts, belt testing fees, required uniforms you have to pay for, high priced lessons, etc. The HILARIOUS thing about all that is that Bullshido greatly advocates BJJ which for the most part is represented by the highest priced schools in the market, contracts, requirements to buy certain uniforms and even....wait for it....testing fees.

No one can say that anyone is teaching "bad" martial arts since their is no universally agreed "good" martial art curriculum. McDojo is a term of hurt and ignorance and leads to nothing but confusion, chest pounding and general puffery -
IMO.

The day you open a commercial location to teach you have to consider making money, unless you personally finance it out of your kind heart. Without commercial martial arts the martial arts would not be where it is today and would likely go underground with most of us having no where to train.

In love,

Jason Brinn

 

[WaterGal]

I see your point. I was in an organization that had younger Black Belts in TKD . Around 12 years old. Most had been there for 6 years or so. I dont know how I feel about it. Sometimes i didnt like it other times i didnt have a problem with it. Im still trying to decide on the issue. If we are basing it on someones ability to do required forms then some 12 year olds are good. But idk if they understand the responsability. However some adults dont either. In my Hapkido school you had to be 16 to even train so that eliminated it there.
Just some thoughts

TKD, at least Kukkiwon/WTF TKD, awards kids under 15 a "poom" rather than a "dan" ranking. Basically a kid's or junior black belt. So a 12-year old can be a black belt in TKD, but it doesn't all the way mean the same thing as an adult black belt. Where I trained, everybody took the same test, but obviously the kids didn't have the same power etc.

 

[WaterGal]

The day you open a commercial location to teach you have to consider making money, unless you personally finance it out of your kind heart. Without commercial martial arts the martial arts would not be where it is today and would likely go underground with most of us having no where to train.

I agree with this, pretty much. Running a martial arts school (or probably any business) is very expensive. Since this is an anonymous nick, I'll be real straight. Mr WaterGal (who's a master) & I opened a dojang 4 months ago. We have 24 students on contract so far, and that's not even enough to pay the rent on the space, let alone all of our other bills (advertising, liability insurance, utilities, etc) or any personal income. Contracts etc aren't (necessarily) about ripping students off, they're about having a steady stream of income so you can stay in business.

I think what's really relevant is whether students are getting their money and time's worth out of the classes. If you can teach something really good and challenging, provide a great supportive environment and community, and help people really grow and improve themselves, they'll be happy to pay $99/month or whatever. (We let students try the school out for a month before committing to a contract, and so far nobody's only done one month and left.)

The problem is when schools hand out belts to whoever's stuck around for X months and don't challenge the students or teach them anything worthwhile, while expecting the same time and money commitment. If I was going to call a school a McDojo, it would be for that reason. We recently got a new TKD student who had been studying with one of our competitors for 2 years, and another that had been there for I think 1 year. Their kicks weren't as good as some of our students that have been here for 3 months. One of their instructors(!) contacted us recently and is interested in joining us as a student, because apparently the master is only there a few hours a week and doesn't teach him anything. I don't want to disrespect the other school or jump to conclusions when I don't know them, but I'm starting to get a feeling about that place, you know?