Martial Law in Arkansas

[theletch1]

This story was touched on in another thread here in the Study, but, as the other story just dealt with teen curfews I thought I'd start a thread about an entire area of a city on lockdown regardless of age or time of day.

HELENA-WEST HELENA - A neighborhood here is on police lock down, all over a $6, or maybe $8, debt.
The feud started earlier this week, when a man recently released from jail refused to pay the money back to a neighbor, residents and authorities said.
A group of men jumped the ex-inmate and fired guns into the air and into homes, mostly after dark, residents and authorities said, prompting some people to sleep on the floors for fear of being struck by stray bullets. The man and his buddies retaliated - with guns, as well - turning the already high crime neighborhood into what residents said sounded for a few nights like a combat zone.
As a consequence, Mayor James Valley on Thursday called for a lockdown of the roughly 10-block neighborhood northwest of City Hall, in what was formerly West Helena.

Full story.

In other stories that I've read the Mayor has stated that "It's something like martial law". This, IMHO, is a violation of the peoples right to assemble. While I can understand the frustration of a high crime rate I also have to worry about the precedent that this sets. I'm also a little out of sorts at finding myself in agreement with the ACLU.

 

[CoryKS]

In other stories that I've read the Mayor has stated that "It's something like martial law". This, IMHO, is a violation of the peoples right to assemble. While I can understand the frustration of a high crime rate I also have to worry about the precedent that this sets. I'm also a little out of sorts at finding myself in agreement with the ACLU.

Amendment I states:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Doesn't sound like this story involves either Congress or peaceable assembly.

 

[KenpoTex]

http://realestate.aol.com/article/n...80813101109990001?ncid=AOLCOMMre00dynlsec0003

"Now if somebody wants to sue us, they have an option to sue, but I'm fairly certain that a judge will see it the way the way the citizens see it here," Mayor James Valley said. "The citizens deserve peace, that some infringement on constitutional rights is OK and we have not violated anything as far as the Constitution."

Oh, since he says it's okay, it must be...

 

[MJS]

This story was touched on in another thread here in the Study, but, as the other story just dealt with teen curfews I thought I'd start a thread about an entire area of a city on lockdown regardless of age or time of day.



Full story.

In other stories that I've read the Mayor has stated that "It's something like martial law". This, IMHO, is a violation of the peoples right to assemble. While I can understand the frustration of a high crime rate I also have to worry about the precedent that this sets. I'm also a little out of sorts at finding myself in agreement with the ACLU.

As it was already pointed out, what they're doing seems to be in violation of what the law states. There've been similar threads about gatherings and protests on here. Hey, if someone wants to protest something, knock your socks off....as long as you're not acting like a fool when you're doing it. Example. That new movie that came out with Ben Stiller....Tropic Thunder. Some people were at the local theater in the city where I work, because of the word that is used in the movie to describe people with a handicap. Peaceful demo. and no issues. Now, if they started throwing rocks and bottles and started assaulting people who bought tickets to see the movie...thats where the line is drawn.

There is a huge difference between a peaceful protest and the wild west.

 

[Ninjamom]

Kenpotex, thank you for highlighting this part of the article and bringing it to our attention:

"Now if somebody wants to sue us, they have an option to sue, but I'm fairly certain that a judge will see it the way the way the citizens see it here," Mayor James Valley said. "The citizens deserve peace, that some infringement on constitutional rights is OK and we have not violated anything as far as the Constitution."

No, Mayor. Sorry. No infringement on constitutional rights is 'OK'.

 

[tshadowchaser]

No infringement on constitutional rights is 'OK'.

Agreed


Having said that to me it dose not sound like that section of the city is peaceful. Those that committed the first crimes should all be on trial and under arrest. As I said in a different thread: more police presence on foot and in patrol cars is needed in high crime areas. The more police are seen the less crime in most places.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

Agreed


Having said that to me it dose not sound like that section of the city is peaceful. Those that committed the first crimes should all be on trial and under arrest. As I said in a different thread: more police presence on foot and in patrol cars is needed in high crime areas. The more police are seen the less crime in most places.

I wish you were right, but studies have shown that police presence alone does little to deter crime. Oh, sure, we like to make a big thing of what we call high visibility patrol, but it doesnt really work.

What you need is effective management of police resources to specifically target those individuals committing or causing to be committed the crimes you are seeking to stop.

 

[jks9199]

http://realestate.aol.com/article/n...80813101109990001?ncid=AOLCOMMre00dynlsec0003

Oh, since he says it's okay, it must be...

Scary thinking... Sorry, deliberate infringement on constitutional rights is a problem. There is room for MINIMAL things like checkpoints, as part of a plan, or targeted, limited curfews (on juveniles, or in response to specific circumstances) -- but not this sort of total lockdown/martial law crap.

I wish you were right, but studies have shown that police presence alone does little to deter crime. Oh, sure, we like to make a big thing of what we call high visibility patrol, but it doesnt really work.

What you need is effective management of police resources to specifically target those individuals committing or causing to be committed the crimes you are seeking to stop.

I disagree with your first statement; presence does have an effect. It can move a lot of crime to areas where there's less police presence. My jurisdiction is relatively small, and has a relatively high number of cops on the street at any given time compared to some of the surrounding area. Not surprisingly, we don't have a lot of crime INSIDE our borders. Equally unsurprisingly, it still goes on -- just over the line.

But I absolutely agree with effective management and targeted use of resources. Too often, chiefs or precinct commanders jump to high visibility, minimally planned dog & pony shows to address complaints. It takes planning and a balanced approach; high visibility or saturation patrols definitely have a place as part of a comprehensive strategy that takes into account the offenses, the offenders, and even things like bringing in appropriate social services or similar resources, adding or repairing lights and other infrastructure issues, and more.

Unfortunately, a good, comprehensive approach like that requires bringing lots of different stakeholders into the game... and many of them don't play nicely without a lot of incentive. And it's not as fast as simply lining up a bunch of cops in a saturation patrol...

 

[GBlues]

Everytime I hear something like this, I always think of Alex Jones. THe conspiracy theorist in me. Still have to wonder why they let it go on, and don't put a quick stop to it. Arrest the people responsible and then you have no more problems. I don't see a lockdown, as a good thing. Seems to me like it is an excuse to run a test, of a martial law, scenario. I've watched some vids from alex jones about concentration camps in america, of all places. SO I don't know, really what to think, it's messed up whatever the reason.

 

[KenpoTex]

Scary thinking... Sorry, deliberate infringement on constitutional rights is a problem. There is room for MINIMAL things like checkpoints, as part of a plan, or targeted, limited curfews (on juveniles, or in response to specific circumstances) -- but not this sort of total lockdown/martial law crap.

you do realize I was being facetious, right? I don't actually agree with what they're doing.

 

[jks9199]

you do realize I was being facetious, right? I don't actually agree with what they're doing.

Yes. I was agreeing with you. The strictest reading of the 1st and 4th Amendments says that the police can't interfere with your movement at all, without a warrant. However, there's room for some minimal infringements, like DUI checkpoints, limited curfews (juveniles, driving, etc) or Terry stops. Absent drastic circumstances (city wide rioting, Katrina-level natural disasters, etc.), the sort of draconian curfew described here is not justifiable, in my opinion.

 

[KenpoTex]

gotcha.

 

[theletch1]

Everytime I hear something like this, I always think of Alex Jones. THe conspiracy theorist in me. Still have to wonder why they let it go on, and don't put a quick stop to it. Arrest the people responsible and then you have no more problems. I don't see a lockdown, as a good thing. Seems to me like it is an excuse to run a test, of a martial law, scenario. I've watched some vids from alex jones about concentration camps in america, of all places. SO I don't know, really what to think, it's messed up whatever the reason.

I've heard a few of Jones' interviews on Coast to Coast while driving at night. Interesting. I'm not a conspiracy theorist myself... how can our government be so incompetent on one hand and so devious on the other? I don't see this as a test but as a disturbing precedent. How long before other communities decide that "There's too damn much jay walking going on here! We'll have to have a city wide lockdown of all citizens" and the good, law abiding citizens wind up stuck inside their houses? Bothersome. I have no problem with tough police action against criminals when it's needed. I do have a problem with attempts at totalitarian regimes in America, though.