Martial arts injuries

[Mekosho]

My question is concerning martial arts injuries...not the kind one would get from carelessness or just over extending etc. but rather the ones that seem to come after years of training.
My niece, a third black who has been training for 20 years has never had a severe injury on the mat, but, her knees and back are all but gone, she has to take meds for the pain most of the time, and at times, can hardly get around it seems. My senior instructor, knee surgery just last year from years of training, another instructor just went in for hip surgery due to years of training. What I am trying to find out is if we train different from those who trained years ago, Funikoshi, Parker, and before. I have never heard tell of any injuries that the old masters endured from training, other that the kind they got from being punched, kicked etc. So is it safe to say that these recent folks are not training as safely as people once did, or, is the joint and bone injuries part of an art that is suppose to help you achieve better health?

 

[green meanie]

Hi. I've been training for 20+ years and my knees are junk... ankles... junk... shoulder... junk... and that's not even the half of it. Haven't mentioned all the stuff that's been broken. But, after taking a good look around it's become apparent to me that I'm healthier and happier in spite of the injuries than I would've been if I didn't have the art to give me the necessary motivation to stay active like I have.
:asian:

 

[Flying Crane]

Sounds to me like years of bad habits are starting to take their toll. I believe that if practiced properly, you should not experience long-term, debilitating injuries that are not caused by a specific trauma. Your back and knees should not deteriorate due to simply training.

I wonder if incorrect, or excessively high kicking can lead to knee and back problems. The individual kick may not seem like a problem, but they might be taking a tiny toll on the body that manifests later. Lower kicks, which are more practiacal anyway but less pretty, would probably lead to fewer problems, in my opinion, in the back and knees, and also hips.

Constant pounding, such as striking unyielding surfaces, or being thrown to the mat, could also contribute to these injuries. These practices can develop skills and striking ability, but if overdone they can be debilitating.

Heavy contact thru training or competing can do it as well. It goes back to the constant pounding and wrenching of the body, depending on what kind of training or competition it is, can contribute to the overall wear and tear of the body, and can also contribute thru the risk of trauma injury.

In short, the way one trains, the way one competes, and use of correct and intelligent technique can all contribute to problems. I think people need to listen to their body when they train. If it hurts, especially constantly, it is telling you that you are either over doing it, or you are doing something wrong. Ignoring it won't make it go away.

Intelligent training, along with intelligent moderation, should lead to a lifetime of healthy training. After almost 22 years of training, I have one shoulder that gives me minor and occasional problems, and I know when that was injured when I punched a heavy bag wrong and wrenched it. Other than that, everything is fine.

 

[HKphooey]

Crane,
You bring up a good point. I can remember back 15 or do years and my fellow students wanted full stretches and would do any excercises taught to them. Most instructors do not have the knowledge of proper fitness training. I can remeber many of the exercises and stretches would leave me in pain for days. My sister owns a PT facility and she sees numerous injuries in young adults. Most are the result of workouts in school sports, not the actual games.

 

[Doc]

Sounds to me like years of bad habits are starting to take their toll. I believe that if practiced properly, you should not experience long-term, debilitating injuries that are not caused by a specific trauma. Your back and knees should not deteriorate due to simply training.

I wonder if incorrect, or excessively high kicking can lead to knee and back problems. The individual kick may not seem like a problem, but they might be taking a tiny toll on the body that manifests later. Lower kicks, which are more practiacal anyway but less pretty, would probably lead to fewer problems, in my opinion, in the back and knees, and also hips.

Constant pounding, such as striking unyielding surfaces, or being thrown to the mat, could also contribute to these injuries. These practices can develop skills and striking ability, but if overdone they can be debilitating.

Heavy contact thru training or competing can do it as well. It goes back to the constant pounding and wrenching of the body, depending on what kind of training or competition it is, can contribute to the overall wear and tear of the body, and can also contribute thru the risk of trauma injury.

In short, the way one trains, the way one competes, and use of correct and intelligent technique can all contribute to problems. I think people need to listen to their body when they train. If it hurts, especially constantly, it is telling you that you are either over doing it, or you are doing something wrong. Ignoring it won't make it go away.

Intelligent training, along with intelligent moderation, should lead to a lifetime of healthy training. After almost 22 years of training, I have one shoulder that gives me minor and occasional problems, and I know when that was injured when I punched a heavy bag wrong and wrenched it. Other than that, everything is fine.

Absolutely correct sir. Bad body mechanics, as you know are a constant reminder from me. I believe I'm older than anyone on these forums and still can move fairly well, because of adherence to sound body mechanics.

 

[donna]

My daughter trained for 3 years Karate at a dojo where it was wooden floors. She had to stop training as her ankles gave her too much pain.
She started training again three years ago at a different dojo with padded floors and so far isnt experiencing the same problems. In her opinion the padded floors made all the difference.

 

[Doc]

My daughter trained for 3 years Karate at a dojo where it was wooden floors. She had to stop training as her ankles gave her too much pain.
She started training again three years ago at a different dojo with padded floors and so far isnt experiencing the same problems. In her opinion the padded floors made all the difference.

Typically women of all ages have hip, knee, and/or ankle problems associated with this type of activity. Anatomically the female skeleton in various degrees (depending upon the individual), contains elements that does not allow it to fair well under these harsh pounding conditions. Typically the problems present at the pelvic, usually for runners, and the knee and/or ankle for jumpers or 'pounding activity.'

 

[Shortay]

Typically women of all ages have hip, knee, and/or ankle problems associated with this type of activity. Anatomically the female skeleton in various degrees (depending upon the individual), contains elements that does not allow it to fair well under these harsh pounding conditions. Typically the problems present at the pelvic, usually for runners, and the knee and/or ankle for jumpers or 'pounding activity.'

It was only after starting Kenpo that I realised how bad my knees were - and I'm only 26. It was after 15 years of learning ballet - where the most basic moves are so anatomically incorrect that virtually all ballerinas, including non-professionals, are likely to get arthritis in their knees when they're older.

 

[Doc]

It was only after starting Kenpo that I realised how bad my knees were - and I'm only 26. It was after 15 years of learning ballet - where the most basic moves are so anatomically incorrect that virtually all ballerinas, including non-professionals, are likely to get arthritis in their knees when they're older.

My poor Baby. All the more reason to utilize correct mechanics now.

XXXX

 

[Drac]

A couple of broken toes from kicking the heavy bag incorrectly and a few bruises but outside of those nothing much to tell of...

 

[Makalakumu]

About a dozen broken bones, countless sprains and strains, cuts, bruises, you name it. All from competing. The sportive aspect of attempting to "win" is never kind or easy.

 

[Ray]

Most of the time, I find martial arts practice to be richly rewarding and healthy. I've been knocked out a few times (in the late 1980's and early 1990's)...cracked a rib once...but that's for a total of 21 years practice. It can be safe and sane.

 

[Nomad]

Hmmm... in karate at least, I also think some arts' stress on deep, low stances is partly to blame for all the foot/knee/hip type problems around. The "original" Okinawan stances were shorter and higher and placed a lot less stress on the joints. The Japanese "militarization" of karate resulted in many of the extremely deep stances. These are fine for young healthy people (although even there they may be stressing joints over many years), but older folks tend to be a bit less pliant and more susceptible to joint problems.

Interestingly, the older masters naturally tend towards shorter, higher stances (which still remain highly effective), possibly because their knees are already bad, or possibly because they have just learned better.

 

[Phadrus00]

My question is concerning martial arts injuries...not the kind one would get from carelessness or just over extending etc. but rather the ones that seem to come after years of training.
My niece, a third black who has been training for 20 years has never had a severe injury on the mat, but, her knees and back are all but gone, she has to take meds for the pain most of the time, and at times, can hardly get around it seems. My senior instructor, knee surgery just last year from years of training, another instructor just went in for hip surgery due to years of training. What I am trying to find out is if we train different from those who trained years ago, Funikoshi, Parker, and before. I have never heard tell of any injuries that the old masters endured from training, other that the kind they got from being punched, kicked etc. So is it safe to say that these recent folks are not training as safely as people once did, or, is the joint and bone injuries part of an art that is suppose to help you achieve better health?

Mekosho,

As I think the various posts will attest too, your Mileage will Greatly Vary! *smile* It is certainly is a function of the "hardness" of your style and your training techniques. If you do a lot of snap kicks into the air without resistance or stamp your foot onto hard surfaces then you will definately find that there is a cumulative toll on your joints which will lead to long term pain. But some people will expereince this worse than others. I remember reading that the human body is ideally engineered for a person of about 5'10" in height (I think that was the number..) and that as you get taller than that bad things are going to likely happen as the joints tend to experience more stress than were originally intended to.

I am 6'4", a big guy (currently tipping in at over 300lbs) and creeping up on 40 and after training in the Arts for almost 20 years I have my share of issues. My right knee tends to be very sensitive to exertion and my shoulders and wrists are often troubling me. Luckily I have never had a magor problem with them but I am constantly aware of how easy it is to seriously injure oneself or overtrain oneself straight to the bench.

I view my Martial Training as a life-long pursuit. I train in a physically demanding system that challenges me to keep raising my level of conditioning and fitness but at the same time I do that with long-term maintainability in mind. My instructor never asks me to perform something I think will be hazardous to my body. I often adapt drills to something that I will find challenging but won't leave me in agony the next day. I also balance the "external" training with more hollistic "internal" training like Tai Chi. I find that my Tai Chi class leaves me physically tired without any joint pain the next day and no injuries.

In the end it is about taking a long term view of your training and balancing your bodies' limitations with your pursuit of knowledge. Luckily there are many arts to choose from!

Regards,

Rob