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pakua
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My son's class had to make up katas a while back, but I think it was just Sensei injecting a bit of a change into proceedings- a bit of fun. I doubt if they rewrote the book after the exercise!
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Hey Mich - where you been?MichiganTKD said:Not me. I love doing form. There is ALWAYS something new to learn from it, and you can spend a lifetime perfecting it. Without form, it would just be fighting. Guys need form because it teaches us how to be graceful and flow with our techniques.
As far as making up our own, yes I have experimented with my own personal sets, wondering how to begin and what might come next. But I teach and practice official forms that were developed by more experienced Grandmasters than me. Your average student and black belt has nowhere near the expertise necessary to consider developing his/her own form. You want creativity? Learn to apply the techniques you already know. Additionally, most forms are based on principles hundreds or thousands of years old. Your average Instructor, teaching for even several decades, is simply not at that level.
One of the things that separates true form from mere technique sets is nuance-the little things that must be understood before a form is effective. If I set out to create a form, it may have nice big movements, but it would be lacking in the nuances that make it what it is. Just like a master painting. It is the nuances, the little details that give it life and character. This is what also separates true from phony masters. True masters understand and can explain these nuances. Phony masters cannot.
I've practiced form with GM Hae Man Park. He could easily spend 3 hours on a little technique-how to do it properly, what angle, where to contact, what it does etc. You just stand amazed at how little you really know.
About the Instructor who has his students work on their own forms. I have a theory about that. I think he is not close to his Instructor, either broke away or got cut. He never really learned how to do form aside from basic practice. As a result, he has his students make up form to cover up his own lack of knowlege. Much like an Instructor who makes up technique to cover up the fact he doesn't know basics.
Define basics. If you make up a technique that has a logical application, didn't you just pre-discover an idea before it was shown to you by Master So'n'so? Or did you just apply the basic info already provided?MichiganTKD said:Much like an Instructor who makes up technique to cover up the fact he doesn't know basics.
If you know how to correctly apply a kata than it is one of the most usefull training methods that you can practice. Unfortunatly most people do not and if you do not understand the kata than you are better off doing away with them if you are training for self-defense, well atleast until you run across that person that shows you the light.Bammx2 said:slightly different question.....
I have seen this posted quite a bit:
"Kata's are based on actual fighting(life or death) techniques"
Just like a Wado-ryu Inst. I knew in the UK.....
He said:" if you master your kata's, you will be invincible in a street fight"
Who here has ever actually used a kata in a streetfight?!
I believe kata's are "individuals choice"...
Depending on how you train; i.e: The Wado-ryu Inst....
If you rely too heavily on them, they create muscle memory and NOT in a good way.
I had to know 12 for my Shotokan BB and 14 for my Shorinyu BB and I have never got any benefit in an actual confrontation(and I have had more than my share)
I'm doggin kata's. I don't teach them....but I have a wallet full of buisiness cards of people who do, just in case people don't like what I teach.
OORAA!
\RRouuselot said:Here is another thing to consider.
I have met some people that don't know any martial art but can defend themselves/fight rather well. Their spirit is such that they just have good natural skills. Then their are guys I have seen that have trained in all sorts of arts for 20+ years that can't fight for squat basically because they have no spirit. I have seen guys that have trained a long time get handed their *** by guys that know nothing.
SO in the end it doesn't matter if you are studying the flavor of the month ultimate fighting art or doing "classical" arts. In the end you will do as your spirit dictates in a real situation. Period.
I am not sure you are seeing what this discussion is about please go back and read the first postShu2jack said:I don't see anything wrong with a black belt, or someone testing for a black belt rank, creating their own form.
I personally believe that a black belt has mastered the basics of his/her system. If this is the case, would it not make sense to create your own personal form based on your skill, preferences, ablility, style, etc. using what you have learned from your system to demostrate mastery of the basics?
I read the first post, but.....I am not sure you are seeing what this discussion is about please go back and read the first post
I believe that creating your own form is wrong also. There is plenty to learn with the traditional forms in one's own system. Creating forms is why we have all of the gymnastics routines that you see at tournaments today.
...If thats the case then why wouldnt it be ok for a student to take their favorite techniques make a kata out of them and practice them? Just curious.
Even though I voted NO and believe you should perfect the kata of your chosen style; yet I have gone ahead and developed my own 'personal' kata based on my favorite techniques and those that have worked both in contest and in a self-defense situation.
This is strictly a 'personal' kata, which I keep to myself and practice on my own; I let no one see me practice my personal kata anymore than I would want someone to read my diary.
But I devised my own 'personal' kata only after I had been well versed in several traditional karate & Judo kata's
No, Creativity and original thinking should definately not be allowed, there is no place for that in the martial arts.
As far as making up our own, yes I have experimented with my own personal sets, wondering how to begin and what might come next. But I teach and practice official forms that were developed by more experienced Grandmasters than me. Your average student and black belt has nowhere near the expertise necessary to consider developing his/her own form. You want creativity? Learn to apply the techniques you already know. Additionally, most forms are based on principles hundreds or thousands of years old. Your average Instructor, teaching for even several decades, is simply not at that level.
One of the things that separates true form from mere technique sets is nuance-the little things that must be understood before a form is effective. If I set out to create a form, it may have nice big movements, but it would be lacking in the nuances that make it what it is. Just like a master painting. It is the nuances, the little details that give it life and character. This is what also separates true from phony masters. True masters understand and can explain these nuances. Phony masters cannot.
I've practiced form with GM Hae Man Park. He could easily spend 3 hours on a little technique-how to do it properly, what angle, where to contact, what it does etc. You just stand amazed at how little you really know.
It seems, to me at least, that the conversation spilled a bit over into the realm if someone should ever create a form, much less a form for a system. I just offered my two cents. I apologize if it was not what you were looking for.Not just as creative dance, but also as dynamic meditation. Yet by making up your own Kata, your making a statement that you have learned and are practicing techniques that you have proven in a life and death street fight or actual hand to hand combat situation, not in a ring or tournament.
Just didn't understand where you were coming from all is forgivinShu2jack said:I read the first post, but.....
It seems, to me at least, that the conversation spilled a bit over into the realm if someone should ever create a form, much less a form for a system. I just offered my two cents. I apologize if it was not what you were looking for.
Andrew Green said:For my purposes classical karate-style kata are counter productive. Not everyone has the same purpose as me though.
Nor does everyone have the same purpose as you. Some do kata as a creative dance, why are they wrong for doing so?
Enson said:i don't see a problem with writing your own kata. martial arts should be self expression... like music. after awhile one wants to write their own song.
peace