MA Instructor Arrested for hitting students

[Bill Mattocks]

I put this on the General Martial Arts Talk forum after some thought; it really is not 'Study' Forum material since it is MA-related, and it's not 'Horror Stories' Forum material because first, no one has been convicted, and second, I'm sure there are a lot of people who are going to think this instructor did nothing wrong. But please - please - be civil inmartial artist arrested your responses on this thread.


http://www.torontosun.com/2011/06/17/martial-arts-instructor-charged

NEWMARKET - A Richmond Hill martial arts instructor who was trained by the Russian army was released on bail Friday, after he was charged with assaulting four of his students with a weapon and uttering death threats.

Viktor Sokolovski, the 57-year-old owner of Tsunami Club on Elgin Mills Rd. E., was arrested Thursday at the studio where he teaches judo, karate and jiu-jitsu. He’s charged with assault, assault with a weapon, and uttering death threats. At least four boys between the ages of six and 14 were allegedly beaten, York Regional Police say.

“These assaults took place during a period of four years, since 2007,” Const. Rebecca Boyd said. “We got a phone call from a parent in May, saying they were concerned. Investigators had enough evidence to believe (the line between training and assault) had been crossed, but ultimately, that’s going to be for a court to decide.”

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/a...uctor-charged-with-assaulting-4-students?bn=1

Outside the courthouse, students and their parents praised him as tough but fair.

“Viktor’s nice,” said David Tsitrin, 10, who began training with Sokolovski at his Tsunami Martial Arts Club school when he was three years old. “Sometimes he makes us do hard work. Mostly, we do some laps around the whole building. People think that’s way too much. I actually think that’s fun.”

We hit and get hit in my dojo. We don't try to hurt each other, but people get bruises, and sometimes we get hit hard by mistake, either though not blocking correctly, or a karateka who doesn't have quite the level of control he or she should yet.

I'm a little concerned about students and parents of students not understanding that martial arts instruction necessarily involves controlled violence. If their child was taking boxing lessons, would they think the kid would not get punched in the head? However, I could understand if an instructor were sadistic or hurting people because they wanted to being the subject of such charges. I myself have been warned about a particular instructor in the area (not in my dojo) who likes to display his talent by hurting students. I've never seen this, only heard about it. So I guess it can happen.

I am very unclear on what happened in this dojo, so I won't offer a criticism of the sensei; but it's clear that at least someone thought he crossed the line with the level of physicality in his dojo.

What are your thoughts on this? Again, let's keep it polite.

 

[Sukerkin]

From the limited information we have at present, I'd say I agree with you Bill.

Bruises and, occasionally, blood are part and parcel of what happens in martial arts training or any of the more physical sports, like rugby, for example.

If this is the case of an instructor using his position to 'sneakily' abuse his students then that's another issue - intent is the key in such matters I feel.

I know that some Japanese sensei in particular would be astounded to hear of a case such as this, as the use of a cane as an instruction tool is not uncommon. I don't mean they beat their students until they learn something, of course. But taps, whacks and prods with the cane are used to amend stances, grips and such-like. In the West now, we have a cultural mind-set, particularly with the young, that they should be shielded from everything. So all it would take to get a case like this rolling is for an anxious parent to take a tale from their child as being much more than it was.

 

[Thesemindz]

I have heard of instructors intentionally injuring their students, even to the point of one instructor in my area who allegedly broke a students leg during class because the student was challenging his superiority by resisting a technique. There certainly can be times where training crosses the line into assault. I think this old youtube video is an example of that.

But there really isn't enough information here for me to say whether that happened or not. Did the alleged assaults and threats take place during class, or outside the school? Was the weapon a foam training club or a live firearm? I just don't know, so I can't say.

I can say that as an instuctor, I routinely hit, threaten, and dominate my students. But all in the course of a healthy, instructive training environment. I make it clear from the beginning that the students are the ones in control of the pace of their training and that at any time we can reduce speed or intensity. We also do a number of slow motion and non-contact drills and activities, so it's not all just beating on them and screaming. But sure, when we go out in the alley to practice self defense scenarios sometimes I'll yell at them or get really aggressive, because that's the scenario we're practicing.

We train pretty hard. I'd say the beginners rarely get more than a bruise, but the intermediate and advanced students get kicked in the groin and punched in the face fairly regularly. As an instructor, I think I get the worst of it. I can't teach a technique with an eye gouge or a throat chop without getting hammered by the student. But that's karate. At least that's how I was brought up.

This is scary. You try to prepare your students for the reality of karate training, and then you try to slowly initiate them into more and more rigorous practice, but it would only take one ignorant civilian to call the cops and all the sudden you're being charged with assault. Because we DO hit people inside the karate school, and you can't get away with that almost anywhere else.

Just the other night I slapped a student in the face while we were grappling and caught the corner of his eye. He was fine, he just fought with one eye closed for a minute or two. I always stop, make sure there isn't any serious injury, and then continue training. But if that kid went home and told his parents what happened they wouldn't understand the context, because they don't do karate. They aren't acclimated to this sort of thing. For him it was no big deal. He's almost a black belt, he's been hit in the eye before. Personally, I like getting roughed up every once in a while and having to train through it. It gives me an edge. It lets me know what I can do while I'm limping, or I have an eye swollen shut, or I've had the breath knocked out of me or I've been knocked silly. But a parent with no frame of reference could easily misinterpret that as assault. And then you end up in court.

The scariest part is that he could do real time. But even if he's acquitted, a charge like this would ruin most commercial schools. 20,000 dollars bail? I couldn't even come up with 10% to get a bondsman to cover the rest. And after his attorney's fees and court costs and missed work and ruined reputation? That could be the end of a school that, according to the news reports at least, was an otherwise positive force in his community.

I would hope our parents would come to us first and voice their concerns before they'd call the cops. But my experiences in life have shown me that you're more likely to get anonymous complaints than open dialogue.

I hope this is all just panic and frenzy. I hope there's no substance to these charges. Because then we have another lunatic teaching karate, and that makes us all look bad.


-Rob

 

[searcher]

From the limited information we have at present, I'd say I agree with you Bill.

Bruises and, occasionally, blood are part and parcel of what happens in martial arts training or any of the more physical sports, like rugby, for example.

If this is the case of an instructor using his position to 'sneakily' abuse his students then that's another issue - intent is the key in such matters I feel.

I know that some Japanese sensei in particular would be astounded to hear of a case such as this, as the use of a cane as an instruction tool is not uncommon. I don't mean they beat their students until they learn something, of course. But taps, whacks and prods with the cane are used to amend stances, grips and such-like. In the West now, we have a cultural mind-set, particularly with the young, that they should be shielded from everything. So all it would take to get a case like this rolling is for an anxious parent to take a tale from their child as being much more than it was.

I agree with the above statement and also with Bill's statement.

I also bolded something I want to touch on. I use a shinai for instructional purposes as did most of my instructors that I have had(my TKD instructor did not) and I think it is a fine tool for making correction. I like it as I can adjust my students without havign to push/pull/twist them into correct position. I can touch them with the shinai in the area that needs to be fixed and wait for them to correct it. Newer students with be told what is wrong in addition to the use of the shinai.

Now, at BB level we do Niseishi testing(similar to Sanchin testing in other styles). This involves some pretty severe physical contact from the shinai and some kicking. To those on the outside, it appears to be borderline to severe abuse, which it is not. The student has to be ready for it or it does not happen. Just to clairify, this does not mean I am swining my shinai as hard as I can against a tween or child. Theirs is considerably lighter, but enough to test them. Are there bruises? Yes. Is there discomfort? You betcha. Do students get injured? Absolutely NOT!!

I am sure people on the outside of most MA schools think we are a bunch of barbaric kooks. And we are. But they will never understand why we do and love the MAs.

 

[MA-Caver]

I agree with Sukerkin... intent is going to be the whole crux of it all.
A good MA instructor knows how to control themselves in order to teach properly. A good instructor should already have this level before even considering teaching. Sort of "when the master is ready a student will appear".
Still, knowing the appropriate level of force related to a student's age should always be forefront in any instructor's mind. A child of 15 can handle a harder punch than a child of 8 same as a student of 27 can handle more than a 15 year old. Also how physically fit a student is should factor in as well. As the student grows and becomes stronger via exercise, etc. then he/she can withstand more powerful blows.
An instructor however should IMO never EVER threaten a student's life. Maybe a military DI because he knows his students will be going into actual life/death confrontations. But as far as MA ... no. Although life and death confrontation could be a possibility for any one at any time (MA/SD student or not) trying to mentally prepare them for that isn't an MA/SD's job.
Teaching techniques, teaching appropriate levels of applications per techniques and so forth.

Whether this man gets charged or not... he's "too aggressive" (from the article's description) to be an effective MA teacher ... at least for children. Can someone say Kobra Kai?

 

[Blade96]

depends on what kind of hitting it is.

just normal ma hitting? Fine


beating the hell out of some poor sod? Not fine

 

[Thesemindz]

Whether this man gets charged or not... he's "too aggressive" (from the article's description) to be an effective MA teacher ... at least for children. Can someone say Kobra Kai?

Where do you get this impression? Re-reading the two articles, all I see is this.

“He can be tough, but I’ve never seen him aggressive,” said parent Julia Tsitrin, whose two kids attend Tsunami.

“He would make us work,” he said. “We’d do some laps around the whole building. Some people think that’s way too much, but I actually think it’s fun.”

Another student who attended court, David Robinson, 10, credited Sokolovski with improving his confidence through his training.

“I used to be like a loser, in first and second grade,” he said outside the courthouse. “(Now) I feel strong.”

I don't see Kobra Kai anywhere. I'm not saying he isn't guilty, just that I don't see what you're referring to. Maybe I missed it.

As for death threats, I don't think that's inherently a problem. Sometimes I'll give my training partners the "throat slit" hand motion as a joke before a sparring match, and sometimes during self defense scenario training I might threaten or yell at them, but it's always understood that it is in the vein or role playing. Now with six year olds? Probably not. But with adults, sure, all the time.

Maybe the guy is a villain. I hope not. But it seems like the majority of his students and their parents think he's a hero, at least from what I read in the news articles. Oh well, like one of his students is quoted in the article, "the truth will come out."


-Rob

 

[chinto]

Hmm this may be a little bit of a cultural thing too. If he was trained by the soviet army, well they had a very brutal way of training. Most people to a greater extent then not teach the way they were taught. This could result in some things that some people in the west would not understand as training because it is more harsh then most would expect.

Did he cross the line? I do NOT know. I was not there. I think that its possible, but its just as possible that he is training using a harsher version of school then some are willing to except. Remember in the Russian army, even before the soviets, harsh training was the rule. They found even fatality's in training completely excceptable even to a percentage of the whole training group... so I guess it will be up to a jury to look over and decide.

 

[tinker1]

Hmm

Back in the day, Master Long used to... well let's be truthful.. he used to beat the crap out of us.

When sparring with him, he would say that he had to hit us at least one time really hard, to see that we could keep going. Most of the time it was MORE than one hard shot though.

He would also have us sit in horse stance with elbow strike (elbows back, fists at the side) and he would punch us HARD in the solar plexus - to train / test our Ki.

He would also have us sit in horse stance with hands extended, and place weights on our hands... then go take phone calls in his office - drop the weigh, you get smacked. One time he left the Dojo for about 20 minutes...

We would all go to school with bruises all over the place.. broken nose, sore ribs, shiners.. all of it.

Yeah, it was rough, but no one ever even thought of complaining to our parents or anyone else. We knew what we signed up for.

These days it just seems like kids in particular.. but pretty much everyone in general, is just looking to file a law suit. No sense of taking responsibility for their choices - no consideration about what they are learning. It's like football players that complain about getting tackled.. or track and field runners complaining about the race being too long.. or that it involves running.

 

[Kittan Bachika]

Proper martial arts training requires contact, but the teacher really has to know what they are doing.

I have been punched, kicked thrown around, hit with a bokken and that was when I first started in martial arts. but I loved every bit of it and I am glad I went through it. I won't freak out if I ever get attacked. Also it gives me confidence to know that I can take a punch or two.

Even if someone trains at a mcdojo, they are going to take some hits.

If this teacher was beating them severely on a daily basis because he felt like it, then he deserves what he gets.

But if it is just a case of hard training, where he was giving a couple of kicks to the solar plexus and knockign the wind out of some kids. Then he should be let go.

 

[Sensei Payne]

There is a line...

You should never hit a student out of anger...and if this is what was happening..then it needs to be stopped.

On a legal note...if they signed the waiver, he can basically do whatever he wants when it comes to physical contact of a martial arts nature.

i have even had younger students that wanted to try out the "big kids" class and they have have the full knowleadge what it entailed...heck they have even watched many of the classes themselves...but when it actually came down to doing it..of course there were tears, and whining...it happens...you can't make everyone happy...i have even had a few adults bow out due to how rough it is, and it just isn't what they are looking for, and thats fine..

but the instructor is protected by that release waiver...unless of course the courts find that it had been abused.

Over all, we won't really know exactly what happened...for all we know the media can be blowing it out of perportion like they usually do...but I hope everything turns out for the best.

 

[Champ-Pain]

When I "play fight" with my students - MMA style - I slap, punch, kick, tickle - ha ha ha - in a controled fashion, softly, and very carefully choosing and picking my spots/shots. I also allow the younger ones to punch, kick, whatever they want to do to me... but I would NEVER touch/put a hand on a student out of rage, anger, fustration, disappoinment - by way of discipline, punishment or otherwise. NO way - NO how - NOT ever.