Looking for Ninjitsu Training Partners in the NW Indiana Area

[Brian R. VanCise]

What Chris said!


Frankly you are just training and right now your training has nothing to do with any form of Ninjutsu so you should just drop that idea. Unless you go to a Training Hall of the Bujinkan, Genbukan, Jinekan or as Chris said a legitimate off shoot then you are not training in this system or lineage. That is the current reality! Now that is not implying that your training is not good just that you are not training in this lineage. Now if you are sincere and really want to train in one of the X-Kan's then you will find a way to make it to one of their dojo's and learn from a qualified instructor.

There simply is no other way!

 

[jks9199]

Self correction here. I misread a part of the earlier post, but that doesn't change my earlier comments. However, I will address the comment itself here.



No, the preference for Ninjutsu practitioners is for standing grappling. The belief of being "easily flipped over" is Luis', correct? Well, I would say that that shows a limited understanding of a rear naked choke, after all, a standing choke is pretty standard from a security viewpoint. A standing rear choke, as I apply it, is fast, and very strong. It is also applied in a way that makes it rather hard to flip me over, just so you know.

One other thing about doing chokes on a standing person from behind... They're among sentry removal tactics. They've been successfully used in wartime. Maybe there's something to them... Like maybe you take the person's balance as you apply the choke? Meaning that they can't simply flip you?

Nah. Couldn't be.

I see people who ask something like "what if a BJJ guy gets you in a choke" or "what if I get you in a full Nelson..." and so on. Well, a lot of chokes and holds, ONCE APPLIED, are difficult or impossible to break. That is, after all, the point of the move, no? Proving "superiority" by something like that is kind of like asking a racer if he can beat you if you start the race at the finish line...

 

[Omar B]

Well, you can learn how to play a real guitar with Guitar Hero or Rock Band already it does require a little modification right now to do so but they are developing products as we speak to do so commercially and I can provide proof of this too. As for your previous question that is why you ask friends of yours that have experience with that area to give you assistance based upon their experience. Like if you are having a problem with applying a wrist lock in self defense maneuver from a book or video you can ask a friend of yours that has a background in Jiujitsu, Hapkido, Aikido, or Judo to help you out with that lock and apply it properly on you so that you can learn it and then practice it with your friends.

An example of this is one time I was having a problem with learning how to properly apply a Triangle Choke on someone from my back because I wouldn't put the back of my left knee over my right ankle. But my friend Luis who is a professional MMA fighter came by to see me and he saw that I was doing it wrong and showed me the proper way of performing it to make the person on the receiving tap or get their neck broke. (when he applied it on me I could hear my neck straining and stretching would he cranked on it) Then I rolled around with my friend Chase again and then I got the Triangle Choke again on him and tapped him out (after he punched my face in for a couple of minutes:lol. You are right that it is always good to have someone that is highly experienced and a trained instructor to assist you with your expertise in the martial arts but even Luis told me that all martial arts share one thing in common body mechanics.

Then just out of curiosity I asked him to look over the martial arts books and videos that I have to help me train with and he actually told me that the joint locks and chokes in the Ninjitsu books and videos I have are the same holds that he was taught in BJJ but just a little tamer. I truly appreciate the knowledge everyone is giving me but I do agree with him because some of the same joint locks in Aikido are also seen in Hapkido and some of the kicks in Tae Kwon Do are seen in Tang Soo Do. So some martial arts styles use the same maneuvers but just call them different names or change them around a little bit. Also I was the victim of him showing me all of the joint locks and chokes from my videos and books with the only comment he gave to me about them was that he just learned to apply these same locks and chokes while standing up or in close range to the assailant instead of being on the ground trying to apply them.

Learning How To Play a Real Guitar with Guitar Hero

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/03/guitar-wizard-guitar-hero-with-a-real-guitar/

http://www.musicwizard.com/i_can_play.php

http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/07/guitar-rising-perfects-the-guitar-hero-with-real-guitars-genre/

http://www.guitarrising.com/about.html

I only got through the first paragraph because it was so ridiculous. As a musician who makes his living in the music/publishing industry I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that you cannot learn to play guitar from Guitar Hero. Much the same as you can't learn to be a race car driver after playing Grand Tourismo.

Sure the controller superficially looks like a guitar but that doesnt make it a viable teaching tool with 4 buttons on it in the same amount of space that a guitar has 24 individual notes.

 

[Bruno@MT]

What Chris said!


Frankly you are just training and right now your training has nothing to do with any form of Ninjutsu so you should just drop that idea. Unless you go to a Training Hall of the Bujinkan, Genbukan, Jinekan or as Chris said a legitimate off shoot then you are not training in this system or lineage. That is the current reality! Now that is not implying that your training is not good just that you are not training in this lineage.

Just to head off the potential for a tangent here: people like Chris and Brian are not saying that what you are learning is not effective or efficient. It's just not ninjutsu. I'd say the same thing again, but that would be like a mouse running alongside 2 elephants and saying 'Look at all the dust we are kicking up '

It's like saying you are learning Japanese while you are learning russian (*). And when Chris and Brian point out it's not japanese, it's like you claim it's as valid as true Japanese because it's all made up out of squiggly lines.

(*) I was going to say 'Chinese' first but there is just too much commonality for that to be a valid analogy

 

[jks9199]

Just to head off the potential for a tangent here: people like Chris and Brian are not saying that what you are learning is not effective or efficient. It's just not ninjutsu. I'd say the same thing again, but that would be like a mouse running alongside 2 elephants and saying 'Look at all the dust we are kicking up '

It's like saying you are learning Japanese while you are learning russian (*). And when Chris and Brian point out it's not japanese, it's like you claim it's as valid as true Japanese because it's all made up out of squiggly lines.

(*) I was going to say 'Chinese' first but there is just too much commonality for that to be a valid analogy

Excellent point; it certainly sounds like Ronin IS training, and training hard. And he's got a great goal to bring an art to an area that it's unrepresented in. He's just not training in ninjutsu yet.

 

[Tensei85]

My opinion, everyone else addressed everything pretty well.

But as a fellow College Student & Martial Arts Practitioner, as what was said if you want it bad enough you can make it happen.

I have classes 3 days a week, a day job 5 days a week, Martial Arts practice whenever I can fit it in which is usually at the very least 3 days a week.

As far as travel wise I used to travel 6 hours one way on the weekends for training, so I would save whatever I could(lay off Starbucks for awhile, if your a College Student you know what I mean ; )

If you have to eat Ramen noodles for awhile then do it, I did so I could scavage whatever funding available to learn...

I admire your desire for passing on the Art & maybe starting up a Dojo one day, but if that's your "true desire" than pursue it but make sure you get all the qualifications first. (Qualified Teacher, proper equipment...)

I'm not going to beat that into the dirt, as Chris, Brian, JKS, Bruno everyone else already presented good points.

So in ending I wish you the best & hope you do pursue your dreams, good luck!

 

[Tensei85]

Btw, one other area I didn't highlight. From experience, talk to the Sensei of the Dojo of interest and see if he/she can work out something as far as tuition wise. Explain to him/her your desires for training in the Art, wishes to pass the system on to the next generation & your level of dedication as far as travel, expenses, your personal situation(College, expenses, etc...) & a lot of times the Teacher will work something out for you even if you have to clean mats after class to cover what you can't afford, hey its all worth it. Check it out... I know you already said you called but did you explore this avenue? (Just trying to help)

Remember even if you can only attend classes once a week, its still worth the effort & dedication to do so, atleast its something real & has value.
(Not saying getting together with buddies & knocking each other out isn't fun but...)

 

[ronin7411]

Excellent point; it certainly sounds like Ronin IS training, and training hard. And he's got a great goal to bring an art to an area that it's unrepresented in. He's just not training in ninjutsu yet.

Yeah, JKS it is hard because with my friend Chase I'm doing Army PT and to make a long story short the first time I did Army PT I puked twice. (I felt like crap afterwords and this was my friends that were watching from the sidelines :lol But hey after I graduate (in 10 months) I'm going into the Air National Guard so mind as well prepare myself ahead of time for things to come. Also Omar with Guitar Wizard and Guitar Rising you got to use a real guitar to play with it but where the jack for the amplifier goes in it comes with a jack that plugs into your X-Box 360 or PS3 that goes into the real guitar.

Tenshi, thank you for your words of encouragement and you know my pain and I don't know about you but I've grown to hate Ramen Noodles as late from eating them too much. :lol: Also the reason why I'm using books and videos to learn Ninjitsu/Ninjutsu from is because there are some reputable UFC fighters who have learned their skills off of videos and books then just practiced them with their friends when they were just starting off. (Also I got them from the instructor of the Ninjitsu/Ninjutsu style I want to bring in my area for free plus I get all of the ranking/test fees for free as well so I benefit from doing it entirely) I probably bet there is more of them that did but don't want to admit to it but the ones that do openly admit to it is Dustin Hazelett and the late great Evan Tanner (RIP). Dustin Hazelett started his martial arts training the same way I am with my Ninjitsu/Ninjutsu training out of his garage using Muay Thai videos and Evan Tanner learned his submissions skills from practicing off of Gracie Jiujitsu videos because he never learned any submissions with his wrestling background which I can provide proof of this as well. This is how I see it if they can learn the martial arts from books and videos and Dustin with no background in the martial arts can learn Muay Thai off of videos to get good enough to get into the UFC I know I can do it with Ninjutsu/Ninjitsu. Also yes there are them days that just beating the crap out of someone is the only vent to help relieve your stress so I'm not eliminating that out of my regimen. :lol:

Evan Tanner (on his personal website it can be confirmed by reading Joe Rogan's post about Evan Tanner which is the second one)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evan_Tanner

http://www.evantanner.net/

Dustin Hazelett (his video starts at 6:41 and I give him a lot of respect he took the initiative to stand up for himself when everyone was messing with him so bad)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_YvfYSc52U&feature=related

(Check this video out before the UFC gets it pulled from Youtube)

 

[Chris Parker]

ronin7411, I'm actually going to keep this very gentle, so please try to listen carefully.

Drop the idea of Ninjutsu now. If your comparison is UFC competitors, you are nowhere near what Ninjutsu is about. You can't really compare them, as they are very opposed in their ideas, concepts, strategies, tactics, training methods, desired outcomes, and far more. So if you are using the histories of UFC competitors to justify your thoughts that you are training Ninjutsu, you are incorrect.

Someone in a competitive field (such as the UFC) will train in a different way, and for very different reasons. The training will be based on limited technical aspects, drilled and repeated, and then tested and applied in a competitive field. Ninjutsu, on the other hand, will have a far greater range of techniques to cover, with a greater range of applications, and be a much deeper study. You need an instructor to study this art. There is no alternative. Either get an instructor, or you are not studying Ninjutsu. That is all there is to it, I'm afraid.

Providing "proof" that professional athletes have studied from tapes isn't really related to you studying Ninjutsu. And there is no evidence that you will be able to do what they have done. Ninjutsu and the UFC approach is just too different for them to be compared here.

While I see you are making a "concession" to the spelling, by using both ("ninjitsu/ninjutsu"), I'm going to say one more time. It is Ninjutsu. There is no such thing as preference on correct spelling here, it is either the correct word, or not. Okay?

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

All of the above that Chris say's is true. You need an instructor there is simply no other way to learn this art form. No way around it. Good luck!

 

[EWBell]

A guitar/martial arts comparison isn't a good one. I am completely self-taught on guitar, and there are many famous guitarists who never had the first lesson. The thing to realize though is not everyone who picks up the guitar is going to learn to play, and I don't care what tools are at their disposal. Pawn shops are full of guitars people bought who thought they were going to learn to play, but couldn't/didn't. If it was easy, then everyone would do it.

As far as martial arts are concerned, and this goes for any martial art, not just ninjutsu/ninpo, you need to have a qualified instructor. You might get a book along with a video showing you a technique, and you might do it right. However, there's a bigger chance you will only think you are doing it right. Many is the time I've watched my sensei demonstrate a technique and think, "Oh that seems easy enough," only to find out when actually doing it that I was all wrong. The end result would be close, but I usually found that the correct way was always much more painful for the uke (receiver) of the technique, and didn't require as much "muscle" from myself. A video or a book just cannot give you that insight. Keep in mind that while there are some MMA guys who claim to have learned techniques from videos, I'm pretty sure they didn't start off with videos. If they did, I'd wager they eventually sought out proper instruction.

If you are serious about learning ninjutsu/ninpo then I really suggest you get an instructor. Like many have said before, there is no other way to do it. There is so much that is not conveyed in books and videos, and cannot be. They can be useful aids, but definitely not a substitute for a real instructor.

 

[Omar B]

I'm gonna disagree with you. I'm a guitar player and martial artist and I practice both the same way and develop both with the same method. Kata and practicing scales/modes. Sparring and jamming with buds. Studying with different sensei and learning from different musicians.

I see your point about there being many self taught musicians, much like there are many tough guys who can fight. But even the self taught can only go so far (we have heard the self taught musicians who put out the same album over and over because they are stagnant) till they apply their gifts to some theory, much like Yngwie Malmsteen or Eddy Van Halen (who for some people seem to fixate on that he's self taught though he went to conservatory as a teen to study piano and learned from some of the greats liek Holdsworth and Zappa after he broke). Much in the same way a person with great physical gifts like Kimbo can kick a lot of dudes butts, till faced with an educated fighter.

A strong arm does not mean you can pitch for the Yankees, a good ear does nto make you the next Mozart and being flexible does not make you the next Chuck Norris. But someone helping you, coach, music teacher, sensei will use a system to streamline what you are doing so you can grow organically rather than grasping concepts at random and grafting them onto an incomplete whole.

 

[EWBell]

Well I should clarify that I did study other instruments from a music teacher, but not guitar. So yeah, I could read music, etc., but what I'm referring to is the actual technical aspect of playing. I also disagree that someone who doesn't have music training can only go so far. After all, if they are playing by ear, then they can listen to a ton of things and learn without having someone stand over them teaching them modes and scales. Some can, most can't though in all honesty.

Music aside, I totally believe one needs an instructor for martial arts.

 

[ronin7411]

Hey guys, I just thought that I should update this thread a little bit. I got another training partner that is into BJJ to improve my ground game off of my threads on Sherdog. But to help me out with my striking even more I'm working with a 3rd Degree Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do for free at his school on Fridays. If anybody from the NW Indiana area sees this thread and wants to do some training with me drop me a line we would be more than happy to train with you.

 

[ronin7411]

Hey guys just thought that I should update this thread a little bit I got a time slot at Old Firehouse Community Center where anybody can come in to train for free on Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday at 2pm-5pm. If anybody is free at those times and days here is the address:

Old Firehouse Community Center

6055 West 29th Avenue.

Gary, IN. 46406

hope to see some of you there eventually.

 

[Chris Parker]

So still no ninjutsu then? Hmm, might want to put this information in another (possibly new) thread then.... Looking for training partners in the General section perhaps?

 

[ScholarsInk]

So still no ninjutsu then? Hmm, might want to put this information in another (possibly new) thread then.... Looking for training partners in the General section perhaps?

I just went to this guy's Kutaki thread. He is completely ignoring the advice he's been given there.

Someone from his exact town pointed out that there's a six-dollar train from where he lives to a Bujinkan dojo in Chicago.

He was completely lying when he claimed no one offered help. Maybe to him anything other than "Yes, train without a teacher" counts as 'not helping'

 

[ronin7411]

Actually in regards to Ninjitsu I just trained with the Cojitsu Kai of Detroit which is a Bujinkan group that was hosting a seminar there nice guys and I wouldn't mind training with them again. As for the guy from Kutaki No Maru I contacted him about going to Chicago but he never got back to me but its cool I just talked to a person who use to train in a Bujinkan dojo in Chicago. He told me that his school has been shutdown and the Bujinkan in Chicago is having some rough times but that is their problem to worry about not mine. But with the experience that I had with the Cojitsu Kai Ninjitsu is a great style and I truly want to master it even more.

 

[stephen]

Actually in regards to Ninjitsu I just trained with the Cojitsu Kai of Detroit which is a Bujinkan group that was hosting a seminar there nice guys and I wouldn't mind training with them again. As for the guy from Kutaki No Maru I contacted him about going to Chicago but he never got back to me but its cool I just talked to a person who use to train in a Bujinkan dojo in Chicago. He told me that his school has been shutdown and the Bujinkan in Chicago is having some rough times but that is their problem to worry about not mine. But with the experience that I had with the Cojitsu Kai Ninjitsu is a great style and I truly want to master it even more.

There's more than one Bujinkan dojo in Chicago.

"The Bujinkan in Chicago" is not having "rough times". I don't even know what that means.

 

[ScholarsInk]

You don't need to go with that guy to go to a Chicago dojo. Just go on your own.

Here you go.