Living "Off The Grid"?

[Bob Hubbard]

Been reading about this for a while. I kinda like the idea. Using a combination of solar and wind, possibly water to generate power, geothermic to heat with, and a combination of cache basin and water reclamation for water.

Lets bounce this one around a bit. I'm rather curious on peoples thoughts on this topic.

 

[Bruno@MT]

You still need an internet connection, no?

 

[granfire]

To herd a bunch of onery cats?!

I think there are some wonderful examples out in Arizona about off grit.

You can also use a generator, but I suppose that's not what you had in mind.

However, if you tell a certain crowd you are 'off grit' they assume you don't take showers and poop in the bushes. And I only wish I was kidding about that.


Well, Ssomebody told me Germany has a water filtration system that removes all contermination by shooting the water through a special compount at high speed so you could in theory shoot the waste straight through it to receive pure drinking water. I think it's used in disaster relieve kits. But that was a convo over dinner, not sure how true.

But a well with a good filter works pretty good, too.

Things do take a little more consideration when you are off grit. Like leaving nightligts on or similar...but it's a matter of getting used to stuff.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Off the grid :hmm:… ok...here you go

Now the serious answer a Book - and I have thougth about this myself

 

[granfire]

Those Mongolian trailers look good, But I think I'd like to have a bath trailer to go with it.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I would have been more amendable to the notion when I was younger and not married. My wife has no desire to discover the joy of dirt floors or a tarpaper roof.

More seriously, there are many things one can do, depending on local resources, desire to be independent, time, and money. In some areas, if you generate your own electricity (solar, water, etc), you can feed excess power back into the local grid and get paid prevailing rates for it from the local energy company - by law. There are some folks who are net contributors rather than net users.

Living "off the grid" has many meanings, too. To some, it merely means not carrying any debt, living on a cash basis, and avoiding contracts. Barter where possible, pay cash where not possible, attract as little attention as possible.

Frankly, none of the above works for me anymore. Maybe 20 years ago when I was reading "Mother Earth News" and "Utne Reader" as a subscriber.

 

[Sukerkin]

Altho' I hate crowds and cannot be truly happy living in an urban setting, the flip side to living off the grid in the extreme sense of not contacting with civilisation at all is no dentists or doctors. When I was a younger man maybe that'd be something I'd consider a fair trade but not any more .

Presently, pay-back periods for all the tech you'd need to be energy independent are too long for it to be really viable (no matter what the Greens would have you believe). Solar cells, for example, seldom generate their rated output and they fail over time, making the claimed repayment periods marketing hot-air.

It can be done, no doubt about it, just don't expect to really save any money, not for a couple of decades at any rate. A water wheel, mind you, is a viable option, providing you have access to a water course and can pay the taxes for using it (aye, I kid you not!).

Of course, the technology moves forwards all the time, especially when pioneers lead the way despite the cost, so it may be much nearer in time that many of us could consider the move to local power generation.

 

[MA-Caver]

I've a friend in Colorado who is doing that right now... living off the grid so to speak. He has a combination of wind,water and solar power for his electricity plus batteries to store it. His water is a good sized stream which runs by his modest 2 room cabin, complete with (again) storage tanks and filtration system.
The three acres that he owns upon the mountain are fairly isolated and require a 4 wheel drive to get to. Communications are of course cellular and a Ham Radio for emergencies. He still goes into town to work and does all his computing there (e-mails, et al) then grocery shops and comes home again.

Having the ability and actually doing so are two different things. Can one totally break off from society on a permanent basis?
Can do without the net, computer, tv, phone, whatever else we have now that our pioneer ancestors didn't?
I like to think I could... I'd miss it and miss out of course but I don't think I'd go nuts without. This is something that folks should ask themselves and should take "real" camping trips, totally primitive for a week to see if they can handle it.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

A water wheel, mind you, is a viable option, providing you have access to a water course and can pay the taxes for using it (aye, I kid you not!).

Not in the USA, that's I'm aware of. However, I'm not surprised to hear of it in England. You guys have cat detector vans don't you? Poor Eric.

http://www.home-power-systems.com/home_hydroelectric_power_systems.htm

In order to know I had a water wheel, they'd have to come onto my property. That's not happening, unless they wish to meet mister click and mister bang.

 

[granfire]

Well, Europe is so different....

My cousin put solar panels on every possible building on his farm.
He can't use a lick of it. However, he's be stupid if he did: He pays something like 12 or 14 cent (Euro) per kWh, but gets paid around 40 for what he produces...crazy.

But in the US off grit is a valid options in some areas. I mean, if you have to have a well anyhow, sewage goes in the septic tank, The powerlines are down everytime a neighbor sneezes...
Put a cellphone tower in the back 40 and call it a day.

Of course you can go all out Granola&Birkenstock, or eventually find yourself in the Idaho back waters, waiting to become the next head liner for a failed FBI raid.


But if the neighborhood is not laid out like that, it can come back to bite you.
A lady in Maine just lost her horses and I believe that her being somewhat off grit had something to do with it. A lot of people can't fathom that you can do very well without having to write a check to the utility companies and still not live in squalor.

 

[Xue Sheng]

It all depends on exactly how far off the grid you want to live.


There are some rather impressive houses that are far from Spartan that are considered to be off the grid. They use solar and or wind power and they can use geothermal for heating and cooling. However with that types of living off the grid comes a rather large price in purchasing and having all of this set up and then maintain it... so in the end... how much off the grid are you really

7 Steps to The Perfect Off-Grid House


Off the Grid

 

[granfire]

Oh, yeah, a lot of nice things you can do with deep pockets. I saw a while back (when HGTV was still good) a show on some very nice houses in the Dessert of Arizona. You didn't miss a thing there...but I am guessing those houses are not cheap at all.

I am also very interested in passive solar architecture.
There is a lot that can be dine with that, that is not very common knowledge in the US (oh wonders, the ecological awareness is about 30years behind) so you can use the sunlight to do fascinating things, summer or winter to reduce your energy bills...

But around here you still have to push for energy efficient windows....

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Yeah, my thinking isn't of the 'back to nature' movement with dirt floors and bugs in the bed. (If I wanted that I know a Days Inn in Chattanooga that offers the bugs free of charge, lol).

Build your own windmills
http://www.thekevdog.com/projects/wind_generator/ $100-200 parts, generates 50-250 watts.

http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-1000-watt-wind-turbine/ 1,000 watt unit, didn't see cost.

Zoning laws may prevent this however.

 

[granfire]

Yeah, my thinking isn't of the 'back to nature' movement with dirt floors and bugs in the bed. (If I wanted that I know a Days Inn in Chattanooga that offers the bugs free of charge, lol).

Build your own windmills
http://www.thekevdog.com/projects/wind_generator/ $100-200 parts, generates 50-250 watts.

http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-1000-watt-wind-turbine/ 1,000 watt unit, didn't see cost.

Zoning laws may prevent this however.

(I am sure you can get the bugs closer to home, tho the Tennessee bugs do ahve a special crunch to them)

 

[Flying Crane]

Of course, the technology moves forwards all the time, especially when pioneers lead the way despite the cost, so it may be much nearer in time that many of us could consider the move to local power generation.

aye, I'm kinda biding my time and waiting to see the improvements before I decide to make the investment.

 

[Sukerkin]

If they ever crack the transformer problem on the IR 'solar' panels I've seen then it's a done deal :nods:.

 

[Flying Crane]

keeping a vegetable garden is a step in that direction. Start to take some control over the source of your foods.

We've been trying, but our problem is we are so busy with other things that we don't keep up with the garden and we lose our veggies to the weeds. We've also got a lot of micro-climates here in the Northern California coast that affects a lot of what you can and cannot successfully grow. Sometimes a mile in any direction can make a huge difference.

 

[granfire]

keeping a vegetable garden is a step in that direction. Start to take some control over the source of your foods.

We've been trying, but our problem is we are so busy with other things that we don't keep up with the garden and we lose our veggies to the weeds. We've also got a lot of micro-climates here in the Northern California coast that affects a lot of what you can and cannot successfully grow. Sometimes a mile in any direction can make a huge difference.

Well, you can't do much about the climate, grow what you can, buy what you must. (but there are coops for that, too)

As for gardening: Mulch is your friend. Mulch heavily with organic matter. also, put down several layers of news paper (I hear the ink is no longer bad for you, but B&W is preferred) down, covered with something to keep it from blowing away. keeps the weeds down and the water in, ideal for busy people (you should have no bare soil in the garden beds)

 

[Flying Crane]

Our neighbors keep chickens (got rid of the rooster, thank gawd), and I know of urban bee keepers as well. Lots of options if you keep your profile small, even in a crowded urban environment.

My wife keeps talking about getting the neighbors together to tear down the fences that separate our back yards, and turning the space into a functional urban farm with crops, animals, bees, fruit trees, etc. The average yard in our neck of the woods is about 40 feet by 25 feet, so on our own there isn't much room to do stuff. But if we get 6 or 8 neighbors to combine our space, we could grow and share quite a bit. I doubt the neighbors will go for it, but if society ever starts to collapse it might be worth pushing the idea. Problem is, we barely know any of our neighbors at all. Nice idea, tho.

 

[Flying Crane]

Well, you can't do much about the climate, grow what you can, buy what you must. (but there are coops for that, too)

As for gardening: Mulch is your friend. Mulch heavily with organic matter. also, put down several layers of news paper (I hear the ink is no longer bad for you, but B&W is preferred) down, covered with something to keep it from blowing away. keeps the weeds down and the water in, ideal for busy people (you should have no bare soil in the garden beds)

Do you lay it down/cover the soil after the crops start to come up?