The Crime wave Epidemic noone is talking about??

Bill Mattocks

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
14,829
Reaction score
3,032
Location
Michigan
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51424

ya no problem here though, lets leave those borders open, and allow them to come on over as they wish!!!

Don't you ever get tired of repeating hackneyed old lies?

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...nd-realities-of-illegal-immigration.html?pg=2

She explains: "Based on population numbers of 12 million illegal immigrants and the fact that young males make up more of this population than the general U.S. population, sex offenders in the illegal immigrant group make up a higher percentage. When examining ICE reports and public records, it is consistent to find sex offenders making up 2 percent of illegals apprehended. Based on this 2 percent figure, which is conservative, there are approximately 240,000 illegal immigrant sex offenders in the United States." She then multiplied that times an average of four victims per sex offender to come up with the "million sex crimes" figure.
The glitch here is that 2 percent of illegals apprehended is not the same as 2 percent of all illegal immigrants.

And that's just the data this 'researcher' has chosen to give. Turns out that the "Violent Crimes Institute" is her blog. What was the source of her data in her study? Who peer-reviewed it? Where was it published? How was the data vetted? Uh, right. No answers.

And of course, we get the usual black-or-white demand - either you AGREE that all the illegal alien SEX FIENDS are raping everything in sight, OR you MUST WANT THE BORDERS WIDE OPEN.

Uh, excuse me. I want the borders to be secure. They're borders, after all. I just disagree that it is actually possible with the amount of resources, money, and infrastructure that we have to secure them. And I am in favor of radical immigration reform. That's not the same thing as being in favor of having the fences torn down and letting whomever wants to enter to waltz right in and rape our children.

Nice work. Again.
 

Bill Mattocks

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
14,829
Reaction score
3,032
Location
Michigan
And more - had to post, I loved this one:

http://www.dallasobserver.com/2007-06-14/news/ask-a-mexican/

Schurman-Kauflin based her findings on a 2005 Government Accountability Office survey that showed 2 percent of illegals in federal, local or state prisons had committed a sex crime. She then applied that percentage to the illegal immigrant population at large. Voila! Instant endemic perversity! This statistical sleight-of-hand, however, withers by employing the very stats she uses. GAO data for 2003 (the most recent year available) showed about 308,000 criminal aliens (legal as well as illegal immigrants) were in American prisons; they constitute about 3 percent of the nation's 12 million illegal immigrants. If only 2 percent of incarcerated illegals committed a sex crime, then it's intellectually misleading to arrive at the 240,000 figure, 聶qu矇 no?
For the Mexican, a more telling number in determining sexual deviancy amongst an ethnic group is the percentage of criminals arrested for such crimes. So, let's go to the scoreboard: In 2003, gabachos incarcerated for sex crimes represented about 18 percent of all gabacho inmates in state prisons; perverted Hispanics, conversely, made up just 11 percent (strangely enough, the U.S. Department of Justice doesn't keep the same statistics for federal prisons). According to this comparison, gabachos are more likely as a group to sexually assault you than Mexicansbut betcha you won't hear Lou Dobbs repeat that factoid ad nauseam.

Oh, that's gotta hurt. No wait, I guess it won't. I mean math and stuff, that's communist thinking. No right-thinking anti-immigrant man does MATH. 'Tis not manly.
 
OP
LuckyKBoxer

LuckyKBoxer

Master Black Belt
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
1,390
Reaction score
38
listen child
even if the statistics are off, one rapist, one serial rapist is to many to allow to come over the border.
you disgust me, more worried about appearing right then being right.
I would like to see you go explain to all those rape victims that the statistics are wrong, and that they are acceptable casualties of an open border.
grow up
 

Bill Mattocks

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
14,829
Reaction score
3,032
Location
Michigan
listen child
even if the statistics are off, one rapist, one serial rapist is to many to allow to come over the border.

So if the facts are not facts, then let's still call it an epidemic anyway. Interesting thought process.

you disgust me, more worried about appearing right then being right.

More worried about facts than feelings. In fact, that's one of the reasons I'm not a left-winger; they lead with their feelings and ignore inconvenient facts. Unfortunately, this is a growing trend among the ultra-right Tea Party people; quote an emotion-laden 'fact', and when it's proven to be wrong, attack the person who noticed it was full of lies.

Deal in facts. That's what adults do. Even when the facts don't suit your preferences.

I would like to see you go explain to all those rape victims that the statistics are wrong, and that they are acceptable casualties of an open border.
grow up

Quote where I said anything about "acceptable casualties." I'll wait. Or you could apologize for lying. I'll wait for that one, too, but I won't hold my breath.
 

granfire

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
15,338
Reaction score
1,110
Location
In Pain
listen child
even if the statistics are off, one rapist, one serial rapist is to many to allow to come over the border.
you disgust me, more worried about appearing right then being right.
I would like to see you go explain to all those rape victims that the statistics are wrong, and that they are acceptable casualties of an open border.
grow up

Well, true enough that one in existence is one too many.

However there has to be the question asked of the motivation behind skewing the data in such manner.
I am sure there are enough of criminals coming into the country from other places than South of the Border, or via different means as well.

But as long as the immigration issue is not addressed in a sensible manner you will have a large element of illegal activity surrounding it.

Current approaches do not work - obviously.

However, articles like that are fear mongering. More of the same, people distributing opinions, disguised as facts with absolutely no workable ideas.

Same as your prison scenario: you come up with something the world can live with you are painted as unamerican, soft on immigration, selling out the american worker. Sooo, nobody touches that with a ten foot pole...
 

jks9199

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
22,255
Reaction score
2,469
Location
Northern VA
There's another important thing to understand about illegal immigrants and sex offender status...

Lots of them are more a result of failing to adapt to our customs, and doing what would be acceptable in their homeland. Understand -- I am NOT defending the actions. Let me say that again: It is NOT OK just because they do it in their country to do it here! But in many Central American countries, for example, it's not all that unusual for a man in his late twenties or thirties to marry a girl in her mid-teens. In fact, in some cultures, they figure the ideal is for the guy to be about twice the girl's age, so that he's settled and established. It doesn't make it right -- nor am I suggesting that it's OK for a guy to "date" a 12 year old (or younger). But some of the "sex offenders" are little different than a guy born & raised here in the US who happens to be a high school senior dating a girl who is a freshman.

In fact -- that's one of the dangers of a lot of claims about "sex offenders." They don't distinguish between that sort of thing and other sex offenses... Y'know, some things done as common practices between consenting adults are still classified as sodomy, technically... and can be prosecuted as such!
 
OP
LuckyKBoxer

LuckyKBoxer

Master Black Belt
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
1,390
Reaction score
38
Well, true enough that one in existence is one too many.

However there has to be the question asked of the motivation behind skewing the data in such manner.
I am sure there are enough of criminals coming into the country from other places than South of the Border, or via different means as well.

But as long as the immigration issue is not addressed in a sensible manner you will have a large element of illegal activity surrounding it.

Current approaches do not work - obviously.

However, articles like that are fear mongering. More of the same, people distributing opinions, disguised as facts with absolutely no workable ideas.

Same as your prison scenario: you come up with something the world can live with you are painted as unamerican, soft on immigration, selling out the american worker. Sooo, nobody touches that with a ten foot pole...

I am not sure the data is as skewered as that child Bill would have you think.
I don't trust him or his sources any more as it is.

To be clear I posted a link to the article, titled it what the article was titled, and posted my comments that have nothing to do with the statistics.

There is a clear and scary list of sex crimes commited by illegal aliens included in the article. If you want to discuss the article based on the facts of the crimes fine, but the statistics can not be proven to be flat out wrong as Bill would hope you believe.

if you want more statistics, Snopes confirmed that 23% of the Los Angeles County Prison population are deportable aliens.... thats 23% to many for me.... Bill would probably try to comment that it doesnt mean they are sexual predators or mexicans.... but since I didn't state they were it would be further proof of him trying to slant things to make himself look intelligent... a claim I frankly laugh at.

I will agree the article is supposed to frighten you... umm we are talking about illegal invader to our country, breaking our laws, and raping women and children in the worst possible ways... what should you not be frightened about?
 

granfire

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
15,338
Reaction score
1,110
Location
In Pain
There's another important thing to understand about illegal immigrants and sex offender status...

Lots of them are more a result of failing to adapt to our customs, and doing what would be acceptable in their homeland. Understand -- I am NOT defending the actions. Let me say that again: It is NOT OK just because they do it in their country to do it here! But in many Central American countries, for example, it's not all that unusual for a man in his late twenties or thirties to marry a girl in her mid-teens. In fact, in some cultures, they figure the ideal is for the guy to be about twice the girl's age, so that he's settled and established. It doesn't make it right -- nor am I suggesting that it's OK for a guy to "date" a 12 year old (or younger). But some of the "sex offenders" are little different than a guy born & raised here in the US who happens to be a high school senior dating a girl who is a freshman.

In fact -- that's one of the dangers of a lot of claims about "sex offenders." They don't distinguish between that sort of thing and other sex offenses... Y'know, some things done as common practices between consenting adults are still classified as sodomy, technically... and can be prosecuted as such!


Yes, indeed.
We just loves us to reglemend the bedrooms of other people...

(yep, doing it with a person below a certain age is 'rape' no matter how willing the participant was)
 

Bill Mattocks

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
14,829
Reaction score
3,032
Location
Michigan
I am not sure the data is as skewered as that child Bill would have you think.
I don't trust him or his sources any more as it is.

Yeah, darn those pesky facts. I agree - let's trust a 'study' done by a PhD whom oops, we don't know where the PhD came from, or where the data came from, or who vetted the study procedures, or anything, really. Yes, that's much more scientific.

To be clear I posted a link to the article, titled it what the article was titled, and posted my comments that have nothing to do with the statistics.

You posted:

"The Crime wave Epidemic noone [SIC] is talking about??" Uh, no. It's not. No crime wave, no epidemic.

That's pretty much the end of the thread, from my point of view.

There is a clear and scary list of sex crimes commited by illegal aliens included in the article. If you want to discuss the article based on the facts of the crimes fine, but the statistics can not be proven to be flat out wrong as Bill would hope you believe.

But the numbers quoted are STAGGERINGLY wrong, and all you have to do is be able to use simple logic to know that.

Let us say for example that 10% of US citizens in prison are in prison for a sex crime. That's provable, we can get data for that.

And we know that there are 300,000,000 US citizens. So the numbers are clear. 30 million of us are sex criminals. See how that works?

But there is a problem. The study is based on criminals in prison. All Americans are neither criminals, nor in prison. So the logic is flawed. The math cannot be applied.

if you want more statistics, Snopes confirmed that 23% of the Los Angeles County Prison population are deportable aliens.... thats 23% to many for me.... Bill would probably try to comment that it doesnt mean they are sexual predators or mexicans.... but since I didn't state they were it would be further proof of him trying to slant things to make himself look intelligent... a claim I frankly laugh at.

You're sliding away from your erroneous comments to make new allegations. THIS IS NOT ABOUT THAT. Stick to your guns or admit that you are wrong. Simple as that.
 

Bill Mattocks

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
14,829
Reaction score
3,032
Location
Michigan
what should you not be frightened about?

I'm frightened of bigots and racists who misuse facts to support their hatred.

I'm frightened that so many people seem to be so utterly, devastatingly, stupid.

I'm frightened that someday these morons will manage to set off the war they so desperately want, between the whites and everyone else, between the Christians and everybody else, and I'll be stuck in a war with people I don't hate, defending people I don't like.

Actually, I take that back. I'm not as frightened as I am angry. Stupid people make me sad. People who are stupid and proud of it make me angry.
 
OP
LuckyKBoxer

LuckyKBoxer

Master Black Belt
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
1,390
Reaction score
38
And more - had to post, I loved this one:

http://www.dallasobserver.com/2007-06-14/news/ask-a-mexican/



Oh, that's gotta hurt. No wait, I guess it won't. I mean math and stuff, that's communist thinking. No right-thinking anti-immigrant man does MATH. 'Tis not manly.

whats got to hurt? That you are trying to justify allowing illegal immigrants who are sexual predators, and rapists to be here by saying that white citizens of the united states are rapists too?

UMM no kidding... noone is saying that is okay either, but we can absolutely close off our borders, deport these criminal illegal aliens, and not allow any back in again.

you remind me of the wizard of Oz..... pay no attention to the man behind the curtain... illegal immigration and sexual predators are not a problem!!!!!! its a non issue!!! anyone who says it is is a liar!!! do not pay attention to the man behind the curtain... its a little child of a man who apparantly cares more about trying to argue a point then protecting violently raped and abused women and children from foreign invaders.....

nice priorities Bill

oh and I never said you said that rape victims were acceptable casualties, you are to busy trying to pretend you are intellectually suprior and can count numbers to care about human victims... the fact is if you think illegals are not a problem then these victims must be acceptable casualties to you
 
OP
LuckyKBoxer

LuckyKBoxer

Master Black Belt
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
1,390
Reaction score
38
Yeah, darn those pesky facts. I agree - let's trust a 'study' done by a PhD whom oops, we don't know where the PhD came from, or where the data came from, or who vetted the study procedures, or anything, really. Yes, that's much more scientific.



You posted:

"The Crime wave Epidemic noone [SIC] is talking about??" Uh, no. It's not. No crime wave, no epidemic.

That's pretty much the end of the thread, from my point of view.



But the numbers quoted are STAGGERINGLY wrong, and all you have to do is be able to use simple logic to know that.

Let us say for example that 10% of US citizens in prison are in prison for a sex crime. That's provable, we can get data for that.

And we know that there are 300,000,000 US citizens. So the numbers are clear. 30 million of us are sex criminals. See how that works?

But there is a problem. The study is based on criminals in prison. All Americans are neither criminals, nor in prison. So the logic is flawed. The math cannot be applied.



You're sliding away from your erroneous comments to make new allegations. THIS IS NOT ABOUT THAT. Stick to your guns or admit that you are wrong. Simple as that.

You are a flat out Liar, who can't even show how the statistics are wrong, and have chosen your own agenda driven author to refute it...
I never said the facts were right or wrong... I simply am horrified that illegal aliens and criminals are raping and beating women and kids in our country when we could be doing something and should be doing something to prevent it.
 
OP
LuckyKBoxer

LuckyKBoxer

Master Black Belt
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
1,390
Reaction score
38
I'm frightened of bigots and racists who misuse facts to support their hatred.

I'm frightened that so many people seem to be so utterly, devastatingly, stupid.

I'm frightened that someday these morons will manage to set off the war they so desperately want, between the whites and everyone else, between the Christians and everybody else, and I'll be stuck in a war with people I don't hate, defending people I don't like.

Actually, I take that back. I'm not as frightened as I am angry. Stupid people make me sad. People who are stupid and proud of it make me angry.

you are right you should be afraid of yourself.
once again illegal aliens is not just hispanic in race... you may want to pretend it is, but thats your own racism getitng in your way.
you last comment is right on the money, and in turn means you make me sad and angry. Welcome to ignore.
 

Bill Mattocks

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
14,829
Reaction score
3,032
Location
Michigan
You are a flat out Liar, who can't even show how the statistics are wrong, and have chosen your own agenda driven author to refute it...
I never said the facts were right or wrong... I simply am horrified that illegal aliens and criminals are raping and beating women and kids in our country when we could be doing something and should be doing something to prevent it.

Yes, poor injured little you. Just trying to warn us about the horrible evil sex-crazed bandits who are lurking just south of our borders and just want to sneak across here and diddle a white girl. We must rise up, brothers and sisters! Rise up and make harrumphing noises! Misquote statistics and get angry at anyone who actually prefers facts! Throw around some links to articles from 2007 which have never been peer-reviewed, no data, only a conclusion that we happen to like! We must proclaim the menace! And if we're hooted down by the evil hooters, well, we'll CHANGE THE SUBJECT!

Go on, I'm getting into it now.
 

granfire

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
15,338
Reaction score
1,110
Location
In Pain
:hb:


OK children:

Slowly so you can take notes:

NEVER trust statistics you have not done yourself.
Ever.

Why is that?
Well, it's simple. The numbers that you get depend on the questions you ask.

Good, so in this case we have to ask ourselves:

What was the nature of the committed crimes (as noted some things are criminal, though nobody really reported one)
Do you really believe that the control group if people in prison is an accurate representation of the whole population?

I mean, you think that the 2% sex offenders do find themselves mirrored on the outside world.

According to that logic, the US population would be about 60-80% African American, woefully uneducated and 100% criminal.


So, to conclude that there are 2% sex offenders among the immigrants, because the prison ration of inmates suggests that, I think we can agree that this can't be considered a factual statement.

It's easy 'math' though. Tripping myself up like that plenty of times. Only when I perform the control equation it becomes more obvious.
 

Empty Hands

Senior Master
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
4,269
Reaction score
200
Location
Jupiter, FL
Believe me, I'm not pretending.

polls_oh_snap_4739_586767_answer_1_xlarge.gif
 

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
31,603
Reaction score
6,030
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
epidemic
   
adjective
1. affecting many persons at the same time, and spreading from person to person in a locality where the disease is not permanently prevalent.
2. extremely prevalent; widespread.
noun
3. a temporary prevalence of a disease.
4. a rapid spread or increase in the occurrence of something: an epidemic of riots.


Might want to understand what a word means before you use it or were you going straight for sensationalism.

And didnt we go over this whole statistics thing once already ;)
 

Bill Mattocks

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
14,829
Reaction score
3,032
Location
Michigan
I mean, you think that the 2% sex offenders do find themselves mirrored on the outside world.

According to that logic, the US population would be about 60-80% African American, woefully uneducated and 100% criminal.

Hehehe. I love that.

But it gets even more interesting. The 'numbers' that were 'studied' were not illegal aliens only. They were aliens - period. Now, if you COULD extrapolate a percentage of convicts in prison to the general population using a straight-line method (which as you demonstrated, you can't), then the author's numbers would apply not to illegal aliens but to all aliens. All of them. Eek.

The errors in the method are so staggering that one must question where this person comes by their PhD? Who vetted this? Who has custody of the data?

But honestly, that's not the point here. Our buddy Lucky has made it clear already - it's not about the facts, it's about the general concept. You see, illegal aliens commit crimes. Even one is too many. They commit sex crimes. Even one of those is too many. So if you disagree that we're under attack by a vicious crime wave of illegal aliens come to hump our precious youts, YOU MUST THINK IT IS OK!

Honestly, I was mad for awhile, but now I'm laughing so hard, my sides are hurting. It's like watching "Doctor Strangelove" on MT.

: Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about war?
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: No, I don't think I do, sir, no.
General Jack D. Ripper: He said war was too important to be left to the generals. When he said that, 50 years ago, he might have been right. But today, war is too important to be left to politicians. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought. I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
[/URL]

Just substitute 'communist' with 'illegal alien' and 'precious bodily fluids' with 'rape our children'.
 
Top