Legal Search or Violation Of School Policy?

MJS

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This is an article that was in the paper a day ago. A school in Canton, CT., brought in police officers and drug sniffing dogs to conduct a search or the school and the grounds, which included cars. Some parents were concerned because there didn't seem to be any cause for this, some kids were supposedly afraid and some felt that it should have been done while school was not in session.

IMO, I see nothing wrong with this. I don't see how any kids could be traumatized, how anyone was in any danger and why parents are making an issue. I suppose they must not think drugs are a serious issue in the school system. Oddly enough though, one student was charged. Looks like there is some sort of problem afterall.

Thoughts?
 

RandomPhantom700

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Legally, the drug dog just patrolling through school grounds or parking lots isn't any privacy violation because they only thing that will alert the dogs would be presence of drugs. If the cops unlocked every vehicle, or random vehicles, and sifted through the condoms, pirated CDs, forged doctor's notes, and other stuff the students don't want found, that'd be different. But since the dogs are only alerted by drugs, it's no privacy violation.

As for conducting the search during school session, well, when else will the students' cars be parked there en masse? I'll have to check out the article about why the police decided to conduct the search, but I can say that as they only used drug-dogs, there was no privacy violation.
 

morph4me

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I don't see a problem with the schools allowing police and dogs to search their property, in fact I think it's a good idea to do it sporadically throughout the school year. I have a problem with them searching cars parked in the lot though, because the cars don't belong to the school district and they have no right giving the police permission to search them. I would have even a bigger problem if they searched the students, but there is no indication that this was done. I think an announcement made, after the police were already in the building, about what was going on, it would have alleviated the fear of the students.
 
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MJS

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As for conducting the search during school session, well, when else will the students' cars be parked there en masse? I'll have to check out the article about why the police decided to conduct the search, but I can say that as they only used drug-dogs, there was no privacy violation.

Great point! Additionally, I think it makes more sense because not only are the cars there, but if someone was bringing drugs in, theres a good chance it'd be in the locker as well. Sure, the dog will probably hit on the locker anyways, but if theres nothing there, kinda defeats the purpose. I mean, sure they could speak with the kid in question the next day, but if there is no evidence.....
 
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MJS

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I think an announcement made, after the police were already in the building, about what was going on, it would have alleviated the fear of the students.

Of course if this was done, I can imagine the sudden request for a bunch of people to suddenly have to use the bathroom...and while on the way, stop off at the locker, grab the goods and flush them.

Letting people may have eliminated some fear, I agree with that, but if that was done, I'd think that they'd want to keep the kids in the classrooms to prevent what I mentioned above.
 

Kacey

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I teach in a middle school, and we've had drug dogs on the grounds once or twice, and no one complained, except the kid caught with pot in his locker (the dogs were brought in on a tip from another student) - and the kid's claim was that we had no right to search his locker, because it was private. We hear that claim every so often - but the district policy is very clear that the lockers belong to the school, which has the right to open them and check the contents at any time, and are provided to the students as a courtesy, so that didn't hold water. None of the parents complained except the mother of the kid who got caught... she was claiming illegal search and seizure because the pot had come from her stash and she wanted it back. And people wonder why parent involvement is so hard to get in my school. :idunno:
 

punisher73

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I don't see a problem with the schools allowing police and dogs to search their property, in fact I think it's a good idea to do it sporadically throughout the school year. I have a problem with them searching cars parked in the lot though, because the cars don't belong to the school district and they have no right giving the police permission to search them.

I know at our school to be allowed to park at the school you have to have your vehicle registered with the school. It also states on the registration form that you give consent to have the vehicle searched if there is reasonable suspicion that the student possesses something illegal. It must be signed by both the parents and the student. So it would not just be a random search of the vehicle, but the school would have a reason to search the vehicle. Also, if the school has a reasonable suspicion (legally, this is one of the lowest standards we have) that a student has something illegal like drugs or a weapon they CAN legally search a student, but again it is not just on a random basis.

The courts have ruled that a drug dog can search/sniff ANY area open to the public, which is in this case a parking lot. If the dog hits upon a vehicle, then the school/police have probable cause to search the vehicle and it is not a matter of getting consent to do so.
 

jks9199

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I don't have a lot of time to answer -- but generally speaking, if you're on the school property in my area, you may be subject to search. And a dog sniff around a closed vehicle isn't even a search...
 

Drac

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Some parents were concerned because there didn't seem to be any cause for this,

Probably the same parents that tell the Press that their child is a good kid after being arrested for robbing a 7/11 ...



and some felt that it should have been done while school was not in session.

Of course because the drungs wouldn't be there but being consumed at a friends house



IMO, I see nothing wrong with this.

Nor do I




Oddly enough though, one student was charged. Looks like there is some sort of problem afterall

Surprise, surprize...
 

Sukerkin

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My thanks yet again to our resident experts in American law enforcement. We don't tell you chaps often enough how much it means to have people who know of what they speak voicing their knowledge in applicable threads :rei:.
 

Empty Hands

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Children have no rights in schools, and certainly not property/privacy rights. Mandatory drug testing for activities and random sweep raids have become commonplace, and the parents support it. You can't claim that the children's urine is the property of the school, being borrowed by the child. I only see this trend getting worse. Some of the officers have also been very, ah, zealous in their prosecution of these raids.

goose-creek4.jpg
 

BrandiJo

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In my high school, if you brought it on school ground it was subject to be searched. Car, backpack, purse, locker, if it was on school grounds it was clearly stated that they can and will search it. It was part of the code of conduct, and all the parents and students where made aware of it. My school also had several bomb threats, and guns and bullets found on the grounds prior to that being instated. Most of the time they let smaller purses go with out being searched but bags and what not where open.
 

5-0 Kenpo

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Children have no rights in schools, and certainly not property/privacy rights. Mandatory drug testing for activities and random sweep raids have become commonplace, and the parents support it. You can't claim that the children's urine is the property of the school, being borrowed by the child. I only see this trend getting worse. Some of the officers have also been very, ah, zealous in their prosecution of these raids.

goose-creek4.jpg

Could you at least try to provide some context for this picture. Or better yet, a source for us to check out.

If not, for me anyway, this picture is meaningless.
 

CuongNhuka

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If anyone is thinking "they cann't do that, it violates the Constitution" my money says you're wrong. My school district made everyone sign a waiver of liablity, and waive there Constitutional Rights. So, there is actually no way to violate there rights.
 

Archangel M

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A police dog can walk around any car it likes. Not technically a search. If it hits on your car and they get a warrant to search. Thats on you.
 

Empty Hands

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My school district made everyone sign a waiver of liablity, and waive there Constitutional Rights.

No, it doesn't work that way. If it did, all the police would have to do (for example - not making accusations) is beat you bloody until you sign a waiver, and then the courts couldn't do anything. Many rights cannot be waived, and many contracts or waivers are not valid no matter how convincingly they are signed.

In the case of schools, the Supreme Court has specifically upheld the rights of schools to perform random and/or comprehensive drug testing, and upheld the rights of schools to perform searches that do not meet the normal threshold of police searches under the 4th amendment. This isn't just lockers, either. In New Jersey vs. T.L.O., the search in question was of a purse carried by the student.
 

MBuzzy

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Honestly, as far as I'm concerned, they can search anything they want on school grounds. Though I don't have a kid yet....when I do, I wouldn't mind the cops searching the kids for illegal substances, weapons, etc - and this includes my own kid. It is inconvenient and it is borderline invasion of privacy.......but I would rather have that than my kid get sold drugs or shot.

I do think that the "unacceptable items" have gone a bit far now...expulsions for aspirin and table knives is CRAZY; but if it is kept to the stuff that we REALLY don't want around, I have no problem.

But then again, I'm also one of those crazy people who is HAPPY to be searched before getting on an Aircraft. I figure if a blonde haired blue eyed American in the military is getting searched, so is everyone else, meaning there is a better chance that they will catch the guy with the bad stuff.
 

CuongNhuka

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No, it doesn't work that way. If it did, all the police would have to do (for example - not making accusations) is beat you bloody until you sign a waiver, and then the courts couldn't do anything. Many rights cannot be waived, and many contracts or waivers are not valid no matter how convincingly they are signed.

No matter what they can do legally, they do. I was one of the only ones who realised that the paper we sign at the begining of the year that says we read and understand the student of conduct has (in fine print) we have effectivly waived our rights by being at school. Not just in matters like this either. they have NO rights.
 

5-0 Kenpo

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No matter what they can do legally, they do. I was one of the only ones who realised that the paper we sign at the begining of the year that says we read and understand the student of conduct has (in fine print) we have effectivly waived our rights by being at school. Not just in matters like this either. they have NO rights.

The problem is, this is effectively a contract. Contracts signed by children have very little standing in court.

Children do have rights. They cant effectively waive their rights.

Empty Hands:

Thank you. That type of stuff is disturbing. Even being a police officer, I do believe that everyone has Constitutional rights that should be upheld.
 

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