Lack Of Power In Techniques

MJS

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One thing I notice when watching some people do techniques is the lack of power in the strikes. Seems alot of the time, people are just going thru the movements, barely making any contact, or moving the body. I could see this, perhaps when they're first learning something...of course you want to go slow to get things down, but even when the speed is picked up, its more light touch/slappy stuff, instead of contact.

I've always said that the arts involve contact. Why people can't understand this, is beyond me. Nothing is more frustrating, when you see someone do this, go to correct them, and within seconds, they're right back to doing what they were doing before. Isnt this part of what makes Kenpo, Kenpo? The contact, controlling the body, etc.

Anyone else experience this while teaching a class, or during seminars/camps?
 

Stealthy

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Seems I tend to say this more often than anything else...

"If you don't hit me, I WILL hit you".
 

Cyriacus

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Well, where I train, if you dont put Power into your Techniques; A: You wont be Promoted. B: Youll be constantly shouted at by Instructers. C: If you suddenly lose interest and stop adding Power for no good reason youll be demoted.

And were constantly reminded of what is pretty much a catchphrase, which is MORE POWER.

Optionally, 50 Pushups.

In short, i believe that Technique without Power shouldnt be possible. I mean, if you want to just do the motions, go do Yoga or something.
Not a Combatative Art.
 
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Carol

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Its annoying. I think most folks want to get hit during class...including me, and I'm not exactly the toughest thing around.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 

Thesemindz

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During training there's a fine line between appropriate contact and too much contact. Especially when you are working static techniques against a compliant dummy It's one thing to smack somebody around during sparring, when they're trying to defend themselves and fight back. It's a whole other thing to smack somebody around during technique practice when they're just standing there not trying to defend themselves. I'm sure you already know that, but I think it bears mentioning when discussing this topic.


-Rob
 

Danjo

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One fights how one trains. If there is no contact in training, there will be none in a fight. I agree with Rob, that one has to remember the difference between technique practice and sparring. In technique practice, one should contact enough to get used to it and to toughen up the uke/dummy, but not so much to injure him. Getting used to getting hit is important, but one doesn't need injuries every time one punches in for someone.
 
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MJS

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Seems I tend to say this more often than anything else...

"If you don't hit me, I WILL hit you".

Exactly! IMO, not even making the slightest attempt to hit, is doing more harm than good. Imagine the look on the face of these people who pull punches and train with others who also pull punches, when the 18yo punk on the street, throws a punch and knocks your *** to the ground. I wonder if the words, "Gee, I've been training for 4yrs, and got knocked on my ***" will come to mind. LOL.
 
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MJS

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Well, where I train, if you dont put Power into your Techniques; A: You wont be Promoted. B: Youll be constantly shouted at by Instructers. C: If you suddenly lose interest and stop adding Power for no good reason youll be demoted.

And were constantly reminded of what is pretty much a catchphrase, which is MORE POWER.

Optionally, 50 Pushups.

In short, i believe that Technique without Power shouldnt be possible. I mean, if you want to just do the motions, go do Yoga or something.
Not a Combatative Art.

And this is a quality school! Sadly, alot of places dont share this same sentiment, due to fear of losing students.
 
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MJS

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During training there's a fine line between appropriate contact and too much contact. Especially when you are working static techniques against a compliant dummy It's one thing to smack somebody around during sparring, when they're trying to defend themselves and fight back. It's a whole other thing to smack somebody around during technique practice when they're just standing there not trying to defend themselves. I'm sure you already know that, but I think it bears mentioning when discussing this topic.


-Rob

Good points. But, even during stationary technique training, if medium contact can't be made, thats a problem, IMO. As for fighting back....yes, thats the next step, IMO, when working the techniques. Of course, caution needs to be exercised, otherwise the technique training will turn into a sparring session.
 
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MJS

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One fights how one trains. If there is no contact in training, there will be none in a fight. I agree with Rob, that one has to remember the difference between technique practice and sparring. In technique practice, one should contact enough to get used to it and to toughen up the uke/dummy, but not so much to injure him. Getting used to getting hit is important, but one doesn't need injuries every time one punches in for someone.

Exactly! For clarification, I wasn't suggesting so much contact that people are heading to the ER after each class, but when you dont make any contact......
 

Flying Crane

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I do not believe that the problem lies so much in a lack of CONTACT, but rather a lack of understanding how to fully engage the body to deliver real power. Most people are driving their techniques with simple arm strength. That can be OK if one is physically strong, but it misses the much much greater power the the body offers when used as a unit. I believe that people simply do not understand how, and were never properly taught how to do this.
 

Stealthy

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During training there's a fine line between appropriate contact and too much contact. Especially when you are working static techniques against a compliant dummy It's one thing to smack somebody around during sparring, when they're trying to defend themselves and fight back. It's a whole other thing to smack somebody around during technique practice when they're just standing there not trying to defend themselves. I'm sure you already know that, but I think it bears mentioning when discussing this topic.


-Rob

I believe during static techniques against a compliant dummy is the best time to condition both hitting and getting hit, provided it is the compliant dummy that is dictating the level of contact with constant feedback.

In a controlled environment like this you have the best chance of minimizing accidents and injuries.

When the complexity of the drilling increases then the contact should become less of a focus since there should already be a naturally high level anyway from previous drills. Then when even complex drills are easy and safe then partner feedback should come back into play to ensure contact is at the threshold of what the Uke can handle.

When drills can not get anymore complex due to un-nominated attacks with any weapon at any target along any attack vector while retaining control over contact, it is safe to say merely taking off the gloves is the final step to an actual fight.
 

MarkC

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There should be no such thing as a compliant dummy after the initial learning of a particular technique or sequence.
 

Stealthy

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There should be no such thing as a compliant dummy after the initial learning of a particular technique or sequence.

Not necessarily.

If you are merely trading blows one for one then sure but if you are trying to hone the reflexes of capitalizing on a successful hit then you first need to get in that hit.

For example, evade/block/counter-strike -> solid strike -> throw....will never get conditioned if that first counter-strike never connects.

What you need is "controlled resistance" whereby the Uki is resistant but in an ultimately compliant way such that the hit can be scored but you need to work for it.

So as much as you want to condition "controlled contact" you also want "controlled resistance" to make sure you both work for it and connect hard.

Fully non-compliant partners are fine for one-hit trading only....Granted, for that purpose they are essential since it is off that first hit that a sequence follows so both defending against one and getting one in are essential.
 
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OKenpo942

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I agree with the quote "To hear is to doubt, to see is to be decieved, to feel is to believe". Kinda says it all. thank you.

James
 

hongkongfooey

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I agree with this. Look at most Kenpo people spar. Kenpo sparring in most schools looks like watered down kick boxing. Why not learn to use your techniques in a live manner instead of standing with your feet together waiting for a called attack to come. It's no wonder many Kenpo students can't fight. People should put some gear on and go at it hard, none of that slap happy BS.
 

SuperFLY

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i get frustrated with this as well in my Karate.

you'll be practising techniques but sometimes i could just stand there and they'll never make contact. whats the point?

during my last grading doing my sets i was partnered with a girl and the first punch (jodan/head punch) went somewhere off to my left?!?! i stepped back to do the technique and completely missed her arm. i looked at her for a second and she said 'do you want to do that again?' and i said 'yeh, and this time actually aim for me!' no point doing a technique if its not on target in the first place...

i've rightly or wrongly mentioned this to my sensei too. we were practicing all 5 sets and he was taking a huge step back each time so his punches, although on target, were never going to properly reach me. i asked him to get in closer, he took it as me being a little cocky and punched a hell of a lot quicker from a much closer position. still blocked it ;) and it felt great. i felt like i actually HAD to block it. i like that feeling, feels 'real'.
 

punisher73

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I think that is the advantage of some of the "traditional" karate styles. They spend A LOT of time on basics and getting them down before moving on. I think that proper basics get lost in the rush to get to the "fancy" S-D techniques. Because those are alot more fun to train. Sometimes I wonder if some students don't hit hard because they don't really know HOW to hit hard. They only do air techniques and then light contact on a compliant partner, where is the transition to hit hard and go through the technique even if it is just on B.O.B. or a heavy bag or a pad holder?
 

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