Koga ryu in japan?

TimoS

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Looks like Danny DiMarzio was right:

Just out of curiosity, based on what? A post on an internet forum that has links to web pages? I can do one of those too, you know :) Would that prove anything (except that I can use web page creation software)? :) No, I didn't read those pages, couldn't really care less.
 

Obi Wan Shinobi

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Well if I was curator of said museum then I could declare myself as soke to whatever art is on display. But I can't help but wonder why would someone be Soke of an art that is on display in a museum. I thought thats where all the scrolls of dead arts went to.
 

j5smoothe

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i do not study ninjutsu yet but i do plan to start in the near future. that being said, if it is true about Jinichi Kawakami being the 21st Soke where does leave Dr. Hatsumi.
 

Brian R. VanCise

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i do not study ninjutsu yet but i do plan to start in the near future. that being said, if it is true about Jinichi Kawakami being the 21st Soke where does leave Dr. Hatsumi.

Hatsumi is Hatsumi and the inheritor of the lineage that Takamatsu gave him.
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Also he is one of the finest martial artists on the planet.
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allenjp

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i do not study ninjutsu yet but i do plan to start in the near future. that being said, if it is true about Jinichi Kawakami being the 21st Soke where does leave Dr. Hatsumi.

I have not trained under Hatsumi's organisation, but I plan to...Just watch him enough (even on video) and you'll know he's legit, the man is amazing.
 

newtothe dark

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I have not trained under Hatsumi's organisation, but I plan to...Just watch him enough (even on video) and you'll know he's legit, the man is amazing.


That is an understatement I usually start with WOW then just loose words.
 

j5smoothe

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i do agree that he is amazing i have seen some of his footage. he is an outstanding martial artist i plan to train under his organization anyway. but, i guess what l'm asking is where does that leave him as far as the line of Soke's. i think he is the 34th and Kawakami claims to be the 21st. is it possible that they are both legit?
 

Cryozombie

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i do agree that he is amazing i have seen some of his footage. he is an outstanding martial artist i plan to train under his organization anyway. but, i guess what l'm asking is where does that leave him as far as the line of Soke's. i think he is the 34th and Kawakami claims to be the 21st. is it possible that they are both legit?

I'm legit. Cuz it says so on Martial Talk. So it must be true right? Im the 3rd Generation, BTW. So I beat them all. And nevermind the dates, and average lifespans... I'm sure I can explain that away. Hey, BTW, if you want proof it will cost 20,000 bucks up front to get me in the ring.

Hahaha.

I am, as always, Cryozombie.
 

Hayseed

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i do agree that he is amazing i have seen some of his footage. he is an outstanding martial artist i plan to train under his organization anyway. but, i guess what l'm asking is where does that leave him as far as the line of Soke's. i think he is the 34th and Kawakami claims to be the 21st. is it possible that they are both legit?

Just to clarify, they're talking about two(or more) separate lineages.
 

Obi Wan Shinobi

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Well regardless of whether Jinichi Kawakami is legit or illegit Hatsumi Sensei will still be the Soke of Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu and the 9 RyuHas associated with that until he decides to pass the lineage down to a successor.
 

allenjp

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Just to clarify, they're talking about two(or more) separate lineages.

Yes, kawasaki, or whatever his name is claims to be soke of a different lineage than hatsumi. There used to be 73 or 77 or 103 (depending on who you listen to) ryuha of ninpo. Hatsumi is current soke of three of them, and it is generally accepted by most that have studied the history of these things that ALL of the others are extinct, including Iga ryu and koga (or koka, as this guy seems determined to call it) ryu. There was a man, named Fujita Seiko that clamied to have inherited the Koga ryu, but his claims are doubted by some, and even if he was soke of that lineage, he died in a car crash in the sixties and did not pass on his knowledge of that ryu.
 

Obi Wan Shinobi

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Yes, kawasaki, or whatever his name is claims to be soke of a different lineage than hatsumi. There used to be 73 or 77 or 103 (depending on who you listen to) ryuha of ninpo. Hatsumi is current soke of three of them, and it is generally accepted by most that have studied the history of these things that ALL of the others are extinct, including Iga ryu and koga (or koka, as this guy seems determined to call it) ryu. There was a man, named Fujita Seiko that clamied to have inherited the Koga ryu, but his claims are doubted by some, and even if he was soke of that lineage, he died in a car crash in the sixties and did not pass on his knowledge of that ryu.

Some say that he died in a crash in the 60's but there's an obituary claiming that he died from cirrohsis of the liver.
http://fujitaseiko.tripod.com/
 

tshadowchaser

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Mr. Hevener, I have just ordered your book. I hope to find it an interesting read
 

999

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Looks like Danny DiMarzio was right:

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79645

"
Authentication and rejection of Ninjutsu from Japan
The Iga-Ryu Ninja Museum states that Jinichi Kawakami is the last and only heir to authentic Ninjutsu:

http://iganinja.jp/en/faq/index.html

They also state he is called the "Last living modern Ninja":

http://iganinja.jp/en/exp/learning.html

Banke Shinobinoden (affiliated with Jinichi Kawakami) state that they are the last practitioners of historically authentic Ninjutsu left in the world:

http://www.eonet.ne.jp/~bankeshinobi/
(follow the English link)

The Book on Banke Shinobinoden's website also confirms this:

http://www.eonet.ne.jp/~bankeshinobi/news.html

On the same webpage it shows a link for the government of Shiga Prefecture, Japan. The link shows Banke Shinobinoden doing a seminar for Shiga Prefecture.

http://www.pref.shiga.jp/h/m-doboku/konanIC/ibento.html

The Iga-Ryu Ninja museum is a public museum. It's purpose is to study and preserve ancient Japanese documents related to Ninjutsu. Part of the museum is for tourism but the other part is actually a real museum. They have many ancient documents related to authentic Ninjutsu. Again, they state that Jinichi Kawakami is the last inheritor of historically authentic Ninjutsu.

*The people you might meet at the museum demonstrating techniques and such are just actors. They are in no way connected to Banke Shinobinoden or Jinichi Kawakami. Banke Shinobinoden is a completely different entity.*

Banke Shinobinoden is well-documented in Japan.

Why the confusion over who carries on historically authentic Ninjutsu?

Why do so many people (outside of Japan) seem to believe Masaaki Hatsumi is related to authentic Ninjutsu? There has never been any proof of this..........why so much confusion?"

It has to be known, Jinichi Kawakami is directly involved with Iga-Ueno museum. Also, he has much influence there, which is why his information features a lot on Iga Museum website. In Iga museum, there are multiple groups claiming to teach authentic ninjyutsu art, not only Jinichi Kawakami group. There are many groups that perform for Shiga and Mie government and festivals. Iga Museum, as many know, is not an ultimate reliable resource. For example, weapons on display are simply made and put in the ground to rust (As is with Togakusi). Jinichi Kawakami is known mainly as researcher, display weapon maker (He provides these for the museum - you can see pictures of them on his website) and performance. Also, Iga and Kouka are used as 'umbrella' term, this is why Jinichi Kawakami uses both.

I am interested mainly in Takamatsu Toshitsugu and Kuki family scrolls. I have seen Jinichi Kawakami perform, also Hatsumi Masaaki, Manaka Usui and Tanemura Shoto. All four in my sincere opinion are experts in various Ninjyutsu. However, 'Last Ninja' claim is for popular and media value; there are many families who still carry Ninjyutsu budo aspects (Ninjyutsu Gunpowder Budo for example). Ninjyutsu is very difficult to research or learn 'deeply', there is not much proof of direct transmission. It is easy to only know 'surface'. I think there are not many people who understand.

Thankyou.
 
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Obi Wan Shinobi

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Well I don't think that there are any real "Ninja" today. Maybe with the exception of Hatsumi-Sensei. But as for Jinichi Kawakami I know that he is affiliated with that hombre...Juan Hombre. So that in itself makes me question his claims. Not to mention that I haven't seen anything to who actually trained him in Ninjutsu.
 

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