Knife Techniques In The Kenpo System

[satans.barber]

The British Law is here:

http://www.bkcg.co.uk/guide/law.html

The max blade length is 3", and it's illegal to carry a fixed blade knife. One thing that that doesn't mention is that in a recent House of Lords ruling, lock knives are now classed as fixed blade knives, and hence are also illegal carry.

Basically you can carry a small, folding pen knife and that's it, which isn't that much use for defense if it's not locking! I've moved onto a kubotan as my pocket surprise of choice these days

Ian.

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

I read some where that you guys across the pond, buy more baseball bats than any other country on the planet (population average) and you don't even play baseball :shrug: . So you can carry a big stick, but you can't carry a knife.

 

[satans.barber]

Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo
I read some where that you guys across the pond, buy more baseball bats than any other country on the planet (population average) and you don't even play baseball :shrug: . So you can carry a big stick, but you can't carry a knife.

Lol, not legally you can't!

Ian.

 

[Klondike93]

It's never illegal until your caught

Does anyone ever practice knife self defense techniques with a real blade?


:asian:


Klondike (aka Chuck)

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Klondike93
It's never illegal until your caught

Does anyone ever practice knife self defense techniques with a real blade?


:asian:


Klondike (aka Chuck)

I did with my 5 degree black belt teacher . Oh yeah, he pulled out a REAL knife and told me to stab him with FULL POWER AND SPEED.

it was DONE in front of basketball field. I was nervous at first. My initial response was " I have a future waiting ".

to answer your question, YES, i have seen it. I am sure many of you see that elsewhere.

there is nothing to talk about here.

 

[rmcrobertson]

So I was curious--how's your training been going? Have you continued to find the knife techs impractical, as you'vee learned more about them?

 

[CoolKempoDude]

your questions are excellents. They make me think HARD. My head is spinning now. I will answer your questions 1 by 1

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
how's your training been going?

I am no longer training now because of my age. In the past, i studied MA.

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
Have you continued to find the knife techs impractical, as you'vee learned more about them?

knife techniques are impractical??? I don't really know and I REALLY understand why you ask yourself this question. I am with you on this 100%

BUT the answer for this questions depends who taught you knife techniques and how you practice knife techniques in school.

However,I can tell you a few things here

1-When I FIRST learned knife techniques, my friend used UN-REAL knife to attack me.

2-Of course, defending a REAL knife attacK is very DIFFERENT from defending an UN-REAL knife attack because we are afraid of getting stabbed or cut.

psychological effect and mentally effect are EXTRANARY.

3- As I and other advanced in rank, we started to use REAL knife. I remembered I and other wear Police- bullet proof VET for our own protection.

I was scared and afraid when i saw the shiny of real knife. I was wet a lot.

I and other got cut from real blade. You can see blood in our hand like the event you see UFC tournament. It was a real attack and nobody got hurt BAD

the more I did it, the more confident I were and to the point, i did not wear a police-bullet proof vet anymore.

Practice makes perfect. I guess.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

I don't know if students from kajukenbo,nick cerios, chow system feel the same way about their knife techniques as AK students here ??????

It would be nice to hear what *other* students have to say about their knife or weaponry techniques BESIDES AK students

 

[rmcrobertson]

Uh...in the first place, it's my understanding that a lot of vests won't stop a knife? In the second, it's not the torso I'd primarily worry about...it's the fingers, the hands, the forearms, the feet, the legs, the eyes...

Yes, I agree. A live blade is different. But also different are a) being "attacked," by a training partner, and b) being attacked for-real. There is no way of which I am aware to bridge that gap completely, because the gap has to do with intent.

If you only got cut a little as you trained, it wasn't a real attack. And a good thing, too.

I don't think the knife techs are impractical. I think that training in ways that are guaranteed to injure is profoundly impractical.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
Uh...in the first place, it's my understanding that a lot of vests won't stop a knife? In the second, it's not the torso I'd primarily worry about...it's the fingers, the hands, the forearms, the feet, the legs, the eyes...

do you ever try to wear a bullet proof vet ??? If your bullet proof vet can stop a bullet, it sure stops a REAL knife from going through your body.

SAFETY is a real concern when practicing LIVE weaponry techniques

Yes, I agree. A live blade is different. But also different are a) being "attacked," by a training partner, and b) being attacked for-real. There is no way of which I am aware to bridge that gap completely, because the gap has to do with intent.

that is the reason why it is UP to you to tell your partner to be SERIOUS when he attacks you.

If you only got cut a little as you trained, it wasn't a real attack. And a good thing, too.

I don't think the knife techs are impractical. I think that training in ways that are guaranteed to injure is profoundly impractical.

when you LEARN how to defend a REAL knife attack, 2 things are very important

1- You have to LEARN how to get cut
2- Where do you want to get CUT?

Of course, you want to recover quickly from training WITHOUT any permanent injury from partner or you.

If you keep training with plastic knife, you will not have a confident in a REAL knife techniques.

I wish you can tell bad guy if he can exchange his REAL knife for a plastic knife

 

[rmcrobertson]

Well, already had this discussion. Train with live blades if you wish--but include me out. Why?

Because you are going to get hurt, and it's not necessary. If you seriously attack somebody in training with knife, and you use a live blade, somebody is going to get themselves hurt.

They don't train with live blades in the military, as other posters have mentioned. Seems to me that realism would be a bit of a concern there.

Again, it is my understanding that Kevlar vests are designed to stop bullets, not knives. After all, it's a woven fabric...

I'm curious about why you're not still training, in this context. I'm 50 now, and I plan to be training when I'm ninety, though I doubt I'll be taking the shots I take in, say, advanced classes...

 

[Cruentus]

I train specifically in blade oriented arts, yet I have to agree with mcrobertson.

Training live blades against a partner is dangerous and unessicaary. About half way down the thread, I explain my position here:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12195&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

my 2 cents

:asian:

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
Well, already had this discussion. Train with live blades if you wish--but include me out. Why?

it is a personal choice. I wanted to be ready for anything. Training in MA is a serious business.

what you practice in dojo will reflect your performance on the street

Because you are going to get hurt, and it's not necessary. If you seriously attack somebody in training with knife, and you use a live blade, somebody is going to get themselves hurt.

as i said before, SAFETY is a number 1 concern for everybody in dojo

They don't train with live blades in the military, as other posters have mentioned. Seems to me that realism would be a bit of a concern there.

do you understand why they don't use live blades in military ???
you see military guy carry knife BUT they barely use in the battle

why??? they have gun. AIM, shoot, DROP bomb. We are winner. Quick, heh?

Again, it is my understanding that Kevlar vests are designed to stop bullets, not knives. After all, it's a woven fabric...

your comment is really interesting. Let me put it this way. Inside the bullet proof vet, there is a thick metal.

ever try to stab on a thick metal???
if you don't know, it is OK

I'm curious about why you're not still training, in this context. I'm 50 now, and I plan to be training when I'm ninety, though I doubt I'll be taking the shots I take in, say, advanced classes...

when you are OLDER, you will realize a few things:

1-Learning more MA will not help you live over 100,
2-Your physical is not strong any more. If you are 60 or 70 years old, you want to practice with young and strong guy???

your back is not as good as it was a few years ago. Why try to get more injury on yourself.

 

[rmcrobertson]

First off, my understanding is that most vests don't come with a metal plate.

Second off, sure, train like you fight. generally speaking, quite true. But for reasons already advanced, I'd argue it's nuts to train kenpo techniques with live blades--makes me wonder if this isn't a big chunk of why you're not still training. And if you'll check out the other thread on this, you'll note that at least one poster says that even military guys who used knives DID NOT TRAIN with them.

Third, sure as you get older, you lose some things. I said that. But, you can still train...you just train differently. Differently how? Sensibly, with respect to your age.

Why does it make sense to a) train with live blades because you might be attacked with one and need practice to be prepared, b) reject what I wrote about it being unnecessary to train with sharp blades on the grounds that unless you use such blades you won't be prepared--but then turn around and say that you've quit training altogether, on the grounds that you can't do everything you could at 21?

If we're going to insist on absolute realism--and I think that's a bad idea--OK, fine. Shouldn't you be training still, on the realistic ground that you are far more likely to be attacked as an older person?

Oh, and incidentally--I'm far stronger now than I was at 30, twenty years ago. And who said anything about living forever?

 

[arnisador]

Bulletproof vests stop bullets. A solid knife thrust will go through many of them. The physics is different in each case.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by arnisador
Bulletproof vests stop bullets. A solid knife thrust will go through many of them. The physics is different in each case.

darn, we must have very good bullet proof vet by then. I didn't know where my friend got these vets BUT they were very helpful to us by then.

i thought the impact of bullet is more POWERFUL than a knife thrust???

 

[parkerkarate]

Mr. Parker did make these techniques, but as we all know all of these techniques were based on attackers from the 60's and 70's. As much as I would like have seen chalanges in studios and all of that good stuff. I was not born till '84. We all have to remember today is a different world. Many of the techniques we do would probably not work without a few changes. I would never want to get into a knife fight but if I had no other choice I would use these techniques with a few changes just to make sure they go "smoothly."

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson

I'd argue it's nuts to train kenpo techniques with live blades--makes me wonder if this isn't a big chunk of why you're not still training.

already stated previously

Why does it make sense to a) train with live blades because you might be attacked with one and need practice to be prepared, b) reject what I wrote about it being unnecessary to train with sharp blades on the grounds that unless you use such blades you won't be prepared--but then turn around and say that you've quit training altogether, on the grounds that you can't do everything you could at 21?

2 things need to say

1-When i talk about knife experiences, i talk about my OLD knife practicing. Long time ago.

2-YOu want me to go back to my old training, don't you?

I will contact my sensei if he wants to teach me. If he decides to do that, I'll go back to my training.

I will let you know

If we're going to insist on absolute realism--and I think that's a bad idea--OK, fine. Shouldn't you be training still, on the realistic ground that you are far more likely to be attacked as an older person?

when I am getting older, I intend to stay home more often. Of course, it leads to a little bit safer.

Oh, and incidentally--I'm far stronger now than I was at 30, twenty years ago. And who said anything about living forever?

we will drink for our health.

 

[arnisador]

Knifeproof is different than bulletproof. Check out:
http://bodyarmour.safeshopper.com/1/cat1.htm?238

Covert/concealable bullet proof or bullet and knife proof vests

http://bodyarmour.safeshopper.com/3/cat3.htm?954

A Ballistic vest with stab proof protection thus shielding the vital kill zone from bullets,knives and sharp objects.

Stab proof is a higher level. Remember, a blade is much thinner and so less pressure is required to penetrate (comparing pushing ablade through someone with your hand vs. doing the same with a bullet), but more to the point, the nature of the vests allows for the thin blade to slip between fibers in a way that a bullet, due to its size, cannot.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Arnisador, thanks. I wasn't really sure about the knife-and-vest issue, which I've only read about--sometimes in fiction. Good to have a more-knowledgeable voice.

Frankly, I'm starting to suspect that "Cool," is a bit of a phony. There're one too many inconsistencies in what he claims as his technical knowledge, one too many contradictions in some of his ideas--and one too many abrupt breaks from their, "broken English," writing style, one too many shifts from good solid English to that weird, pseudo-Zen syntax that we see so often in the collected works of Kwai Chang Kane...