knife carry and acquisition

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Bob

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Keeping in the spirit of drawing your blade, as established in a previous thread, I was just wondering how others carried their blades, what kind of blade it was, how they accessed it and if they were any positives or negatives in where they carried it.


I personally carry clip-its where ever I go. I have a few that I carry on a consistant basis. The Wortac, Spyderco civilian, and a Columbia river (I forgot its name).
I usually start out carrying my blade clipped to the inside of my pants pocket. The majority of the time I have on a long coat or shirt that conceals it. If I find myself in an environment that is professional, I will clip it under my belt, inside my waistband.
I know the Wortac and the Civilian are intimidating, and the first impression is pretty much against you if a cop see them, but I like them because of their size and shape, both fit inside my hand comfortably and make awesome fist loads.
The major draw back of the Wortac is its weight (personally I like its weight especially when I am working with it). If you are wearing sweats or anything that is a light weight material it will flip flop around the fabric. Some have stated that drawing it from the pants pocket, it has a tendancy to snag. I negate this problem by placing my fingertips at the bottom of the blade and push the top part out, then make the adjustments. I know this is a lot of movements, but so far it has worked for me. Also by just getting in the habit of carrying the Wortac in the waistband of your pants helps too. The civilian, and all Spyderco brand knives with the patented "hole" in the blade I found to be a really easy blade to acquistion. I usually pinch the hole on the blade and since most spydercos are thin they just slide out, and it is just a snap of the wrist to open it.
Bob
 
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Don Rearic

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I was, once again, discussing this on the phone today with Knifemaker James Piorek. He always says to me, "You lay two blades down on the table, you are going into battle, one is a folder the other a fixed blade, which do you choose?"

I always respond the same way! "A fixed blade, it's a no brainer, BUT..."

That caveat, that BUT, is always there...

Folders can be Tactical. You have to practice with them alot so you can count on accessing, drawing, opening and then going to town under stress as we discussed before.

The problem is, as Piorek points out, most people will not commit to this type of in-depth training so the folding knife becomes a false sense of security to them. This can get people killed.

It is a must, you MUST have folding trainers. I know I spoke with Datu in the past few days on the current events going on and we were discussing this. He is grinding down the Taiwan Knock-Off blades from overseas for his Seminars/Classes, etc. I'm sure you, of all people, know this Bob.

Never neglect that part of your training, ever. Because it will come back to bite you, literally at the worst possible time you can imagine.

More on what I carry in a bit!
 
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Bob

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Originally posted by Don Rearic
[

[Folders can be Tactical. You have to practice with them alot so you can count on accessing, drawing, opening and then going to town under stress as we discussed before.]

I agree with this totally. As a matter of fact I have folder sitting right next me and I practice open and closing while I am reading my text book.
I try to get time to manipulate all kinds of knives. I chose to focus on clip-its because from experience they have become very popular.

[The problem is, as Piorek points out, most people will not commit to this type of in-depth training so the folding knife becomes a false sense of security to them. This can get people killed.]

I have experienced folder failure, and I have experienced the hang ups in trying to acquistion a clip it in a time of need. Yes folders do have their limitations I do totally agree. There is nothing like a spyderco police model fully surated closing up on your hand when your putting pressure on the spine!!!!
And there is nothing like walking to your car and night and running into 5 drunks you just kick out of the bar, and your blade is pushed so far down your waistband that you almost have take off your pants to get at it.
Once again Mr. Rearic you bring out a good reality point!!!!!!!

[He is grinding down the Taiwan Knock-Off blades from overseas for his Seminars/Classes]

AH YES, the good ole knock off blades!!!!!!!!!!!! I know these well!!!

[Never neglect that part of your training, ever. Because it will come back to bite you, literally at the worst possible time you can imagine]

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob
 
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Don Rearic

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Originally posted by Bob
Originally posted by Don Rearic

There is nothing like a spyderco police model fully surated closing up on your hand when your putting pressure on the spine!

The only thing I can think of that is worse than that is having a Spyderco Merlin [Zytel handled Harpy] fully serrated hook blade folding up!

By the way, have you checked them out since you like the Civilian?

There is also a smaller version of the Civilian out now! It has a Zytel body and a pocket clip that is ambidextrous, that you can change. It has a slightly smaller version of the Civilian's blade, but it is on an Endura frame! Very neat little knife!

I'll see if I can get a picture of it next to the Civilian I owned...and post it here in a bit.

By the way, on newer Spyderco Enduras and Delicas, the spot where you depress the lock to close the knife that tends to disengage with a strong grip, as you pointed out, they have lessened the probability of that happening in the future by grinding some of that area out.

Take a look at the Enduras and Delicas, live and trainers in the other thread in this Forum we were posting in...and you will see where they have started to remove some of the steel from there so your flesh does not disengage the lock on a hard slash.

This is called a "Boye" detent, I think, after the Knifemaker.
 
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Don Rearic

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Neat, huh? These were both set up for left handed carry. The Civilian had to be drilled and tapped by a Gunsmith. The Matriarch, the clip can be switched by the user with a screwdriver.
 

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Bob Hubbard

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Interesting designs. :)

< goes back to lurking on this thread. > :)
 
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Bob

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Originally posted by Don Rearic


The only thing I can think of that is worse than that is having a Spyderco Merlin [Zytel handled Harpy] fully serrated hook blade folding up!

By the way, have you checked them out since you like the Civilian?

.

yeah I like the harpy but do not own one because of financial limitations......

Yeah I like those in the picture, but I like all knives!!!!!!!!
 

Nightingale

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anyone else here carry knives?

I've usually only got the little swiss army knife on my keychain.
 

Bob Hubbard

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I usually have at least 1 on me at all times (except showering. :) )

I've got several throw away cheepies that I carry. While all under $5 each, they've held up good and can be easily replaced if I lose 1.
 
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MartialArtsGuy

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I carry a tanto folder from cold steel. It has a serrated edge, and is really sharp :D

I have a whole bunch of other knives I dont carry. My favorite is probably my thrower.
 

Cruentus

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Originally posted by MartialArtsGuy
I carry a tanto folder from cold steel. It has a serrated edge, and is really sharp :D

I have a whole bunch of other knives I dont carry. My favorite is probably my thrower.

The Gunsite is nice; I've carried that at times too.
 
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M F

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As we speak, I have a Spyderco Chinook, a Benchmade Axis lock AFCK, and a Camillus CQB2 on my person. And it's still fairly warm here. Wait until it gets cold, and I have to put on a jacket.:D


edit for spelling
 

OULobo

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Originally posted by M F
As we speak, I have a Spyderco Chinook, a Benchmade Axis lock AFCK, and a Camillus CQB2 on my person. And it's still fairly warm here. Wait until it gets cold, and I have to put on a jacket.:D


edit for spelling

Sounda like me. I have 2 Spyderco Merlins (they really are cool), a Benchmade Elsewitz(sp) tanto point (I forget the model), and a Spyderco Delica that I carry on a regular basis. I always have the Delica or a Merlin on me, even in training. If I'm going out to the bar or at night I carry at least two. I also recently started carrying one of the Hibben kerambits. I have a Jaguar balisong in my training bag. I make sure to carry the "heavies" (kuks, machetes, ka-bars) whenever and whereever I can get away with it (like camping). One of the best things I can think is of is if you are going to carry go on ebay or to iisports and buy one of the cheapy tactical folder practice blades and use it in training. It gets you used to the feel of the draw and open, and the style of knife you will probly carry.
 
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kenpo2dabone

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...the way we use the knife, is not so much that they take longer to bring to readiness. It is the fact that they are not strong enough for many of the applications that we use knife for. An example would be a particular arm break that we do uses the knife to trap the wrist. For instance, an attacker lunges in attempting to stab me. I decide to move to the outside of my would be attacker. As I step forward and off line from the attack I cut accross my attackers forarm on my way up to his face where I flick the the tip of the blade into his eye. My left hand would check his arm just above the elbow. I would then pull the blade back down to his wrist trapping his wrist between the back of my blad and my wrist simultaneously breaking his arm at the elbow. This is the point where I feel that a folding knife would simply break possibly cutting off my own fingers as it folds. I have inserted picture of the knife that would choose to carry. Feel free to make any comments as I welcome them. I personally would carry it off my right hip with the grip tipped forward at about 45 degrees or even parallel to the ground. When the knife is perfectly verticle it rests flush against the body making difficult to get my thumb around it. By tipping it forward it creates a gap bwtween myself and the grip allowing my thumb to wrap around it. Mr. Micheal Pick, the GrandMaster of the UKF, designed the blade for use as a Kenpo Weapon which he teaches to Special Forces units in Colorado. Mr Pick has been working with carrying the blade accross his chest. The top of the grip would be kinda of pointing at his right shoulder. The tip of the blade would be pointing down at his left hip. Left handers would reverse this. I don't know if it his prefered way of carrying the blade or if it is just something he is playing around with at this point. In this position the tip of the handle sticks out of an unbuttoned coat very nicely and very Subtly so as not to stick out like a soar thumb yet not be considered "concealed". You can also check it out on www.ukfkenpo.com.
 

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M F

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I like the design of that PTK. The one thing I am not sure of is the indentation on the back. For trapping, I think I would like a sharpened edge to trap with. It seems like that would cause more damage. Unless the idea is using the thumb to hold the trapped limb to the blade. Anybody else with Ideas?
 

Cruentus

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I found a new folder that I have chosen as my everyday carrier. It is the Ken Onion "Chive" made by Kershaw. I gave it a review on a differen't thread.

I wanted to comment because I think that Don Rearic made a good point that needs to be elaborated on. That point is YOU MUST UNDERSTAND YOUR TOOL! Kempotodabone mentioned why he doesn't like folders, because he feels that rendors him unable to perform certian techniques. I have an easy solution for that, but at least he is demonstrating the ability to understand what tools would work best for him. This doesn't mean that folders are inferior; cause they have their place, but kenpotodabone expressed how the "tool" would be less useful to him given his tactics. It would be a nussance for me to carry a sheathed blade to client meetings under my suit, but a folder is much more appliable to my situation. However, I better know what tactics will work with the folder I carry!

The Kershaw has only a 1 1/2 inch blade. Operating that tool will be much different then operating a 3 1/2 inch folder, 5 inch folder, or any length of a fixed blade. If I don't practice with my 1 1/2 inch blade (including drawing and openning) then this tool will be a false sense of security, and it will be useless to me if I were to ever have to use it.

So...UNDERSTAND YOUR TOOL! and...PRACTICE WITH YOUR TOOL! :soapbox: :D
 
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kenpo2dabone

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Originally posted by M F
I like the design of that PTK. The one thing I am not sure of is the indentation on the back. For trapping, I think I would like a sharpened edge to trap with. It seems like that would cause more damage. Unless the idea is using the thumb to hold the trapped limb to the blade. Anybody else with Ideas?

The notch on the back of the blade is for trapping usually the wrist but it is also used for leveraging the knife after it has been inserted into the body. I beleive the reason for not "edging" the notch is because if you tried to trap or fulcrum with it, it would cut instead of trap. For instance, in the example I gave in my post above when you got to trap the wrist you probably end up cutting off the attackers thumb rather than getting the trap. Not that that would be a bad thing because without a thumb it is pretty hard to hold a knife but that is not the intended purpose. This can be done with the knife the way it is without edging the notch. The notch being blunt gives you more options. An example of using it as a fulcrum would be incerting the blade into the attackers mouth and then notch side down and then fulcruming on your attackers teeth to push the blade into the attacker brain. If the notch were to be edged then you would just cut right through the mandable making the tip of the blade the fulcruming point rather than the notch being the fulcruming point. So againthe bluntness of the notch just gives you more options. I know those examples are brutal but that is how Mr. Pick teaches knife fighting. It isn't pretty and someone will end up dead period.

Salute,
Mike Miller UKF
 

hardheadjarhead

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I carry two Benchmade Griptilians...one in each front pocket.

They make a trainer for it. The trainer works exactly like the original knife...and the clip it is interchangeable just like on the real knife. Benchmade has several knives with trainers.

I like the axis lock...its quick to employ single handedly.

I also will carry a Strider MFS, or two. I just recently got the IWB carry strap for them. Solid knives, those. I've even carried a Strider Valkyrie in the small of the back, IWB...without much discomfort. That's a big knife.

Steve Tarani correctly suggests carrying the knife in the same spot every day...don't switch your carry. It'd be as if someone changed up the brakes and gas pedal on your car. Go with what you're familiar with. That said, one has to experiment...so if you have a standard carry spot...try another knife in another spot.

As for robustness...not many folders are that robust. The Benchmade's I carry are sharp as sin, but seem delicate. I'm not going to test them to see how strong they are...not unless I win the big hit in Powerball. BUT...I don't intend on sticking them in someone's skull and then prying it open. For that, I'd get a Strider SnG.

Regards,

Steve Scott
 
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