Killing Techniques of WC

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Nolerama

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1.What are you guys views on Killing Techniques? (Many You clearly hate the idea all together.)

I would think it goes along with training and athleticism. I don't think there's any special "killing move" just levels of intensity and points of opportunity.


2.Does your Kwoon teach them or hide them from you? (Alot of you guys I think may have never learn them.)

Santa, The Boogeyman, The Easter Bunny. See above.

"Hiding" technique? "Never learning" a "killing" technique? Unless you're a serial killer, you'll never find out whether or not you will be 100% kill someone with that technique. It's just someone saying it's deadly.

3.Are you interested in training to have killing power with your palm strikes and fist strikes? (You guys seem not to care about that part of WC or find it useless.)

Again, striking with the possibility to maim/kill comes with practice, conditioning, and athleticism. Why specifically go for that? The human body is a resilient thing. We're not super heroes, or super villains.
 
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Yoshiyahu

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Well great points. I am not saying learning WC or any art just for specifically to learn to kill...But WC was created for killing and maiming. And Martial Arts means War form. So why is it such a taboo subject. Why is learning to fight, maim and maybe kill a bad thing. Its not like a gun. I don't care how much WC you know or what death techniques you know...If I am far enough out your kicking range. My Gun will beat your WC hands down anyway.

But I am speaking of the times you can get to your gun.

I mean with weapons there are many ways to kill. So you really only need a knife dipped in dog poop to kill someone. Or if you wanna fire bomb someone in their car alls you need is to dissovle some styro foam in gasoline. Or some household detergent and gasoline to make napalm.

Everyone knows about the karate technique of pushing the nose bone into the brain. Shoot if you have metal house hold thing like a letter opener...You can kill. Just jab the juglar.

Are reach your hands behind the mandabal an try to rip it off.

But you guys seem to think I always think on how to lurk and attack people. I don't I simply feel that people over mystify the deadly techniques. Why do you need to use those techniques to kill. I can go to walmart and buy some butcher knives or a shot gun from the pawnshop.

I feel people make the lethal techniques too mysitical and dangerous. compared to gun or grenade its not. In fact it gives you an advantage. Why hold it back. If someone is going to be evil and rape and kill its easier to do that with Tech-9 or a 380.

I don't always focus on it. But I wonder why many people make it seem so mystical and taboo?

I would think it goes along with training and athleticism. I don't think there's any special "killing move" just levels of intensity and points of opportunity.




Santa, The Boogeyman, The Easter Bunny. See above.

"Hiding" technique? "Never learning" a "killing" technique? Unless you're a serial killer, you'll never find out whether or not you will be 100% kill someone with that technique. It's just someone saying it's deadly.



Again, striking with the possibility to maim/kill comes with practice, conditioning, and athleticism. Why specifically go for that? The human body is a resilient thing. We're not super heroes, or super villains.



I understand how you feel Xue. Martial Arts is a war art. How is learning how to eradicate a possible serial killer or murderer of your life or love ones disrespect? I just don't understand why you guys feel that way? I don't live in fear or in dread everyday. I just think outside the box. My Sihing said that alot of Sifu's now and days hide information because they feel too much info to Gwalo will make them worst adversaries.

My Sifu also hated the idea that many people watered down their arts for profits. My Sifu never condones killing innocent people or hurting people. He never says to be a tyrant or menace. He always advocated humility and kindness. But he also shared that fighting is not a game. An when he demostrated killing techniques he would always say this is only in life threathen situtations. If use this on the public your going to jail. He always say this move is to kill with but don't use it. He always demanded restraint and feared rasining killers. I have never killed anyone...so in 15 years of training I guess He did pretty good.


Yoshiyahu

I have a Sanda sifu and the version of Sanda I trained was Police/Military it is most certainly made to be incredibly nasty to those you fight and if we are talking Military it certainly is not points sparing. However my sifu never talks of killing he has said only that he will not teach anyone that he does not know or trust because he never wants to be responsible for someone going out and using Sanda to hurt others. He has said Sanda is not the best marital art or the worst it is just a way to quickly learn how to hurt someone very badly. He also takes it incredibly seriously and if he read some of my past posts on Sanda and knew it was me he might stop teaching me since it is not something he ever tells anyone he does not know and trust anything about Sanda nor does he even mention it at all this is part of why I no longer post much on it any longer, out of respect for my sifu and my friend. I am also rather certain that if I was ever to go ask him about killing techniques he would stop teaching me all together.

As my first sensei instilled in me; Fighting is a very serious thing and you should not take it lightly. But if you fight and survive the fight you have to understand you will have to live with the consequences of that fight so best thing, if at all possible, is to run away. And I can tell you I did not remember what he said one time in my youth and I regret the outcome to this day

Asking about killing techniques to me shows a rather large disrespect for martial arts and people like the teachers I have been lucky enough to train with over the many years I have been at this. I do not believe you intended to any of that but this is how I take it.

It is not something discussed openly with people you do not know and trust.

As to dumbing thing down, I have trained Taiji for many years and there are a lot of people that do taiji that have no idea it is a martial art...they just know the dance.



I don't believe in magical touch or some mystical non touching chi hit. I just don't see things you guys are saying. I don't see studing both non-lethal and lethal techniques an grim or glum. Why do you feel its such a negative thing. We train to punch and kick and block so when times come you will be able to use it correctly?

A sword must be sharpen and used otherwise you may not kill your enemy.

A gun must be practice with and cleaned otherwise you may not hit your target.

Why is the killing techniques not being taught or virtually practiced.


My instructor teaches some killing techniques others he allows you to discover on your own through training. But he always says do not be a tyrant and do not hurt people for not reason. He always advocates caution and restraint.

AS for HS...well it was county school with alot rowdy kids. But my Junior high was worse. Our small click in HS was against some Crips. But they were still not totally that bad. In fact many of them we fought became my friends later. They had alot respect for us because one time two of us was able to stop 20 of them from hurting us outside where there was no adult supervision.

Most of the time these things would happen when there was no adult supervision.

But as for the community. The Majority is not always right...look at mob rules. Anyway sometimes even with war you have scenarios where you have to fight with your hands do you agree????


I think the majority of people replying to this thread agree to the assumption that there are "killing moves" but wouldn't rather talk about it because sometimes, there's just no "special move" to kill someone. Yes, there are techniques out there that can cause immediate pain, and eventual maiming, but there's a thing called control.

In training, you know when you're at the point you can hurt your partner. If it came down to it, and you had to kill to defend, you could take that pressure up another notch.

In your words, Yosh, you learn A, B, C... but D.... you know where that is. There's no reason to discuss the myriad of ways to kill another human being. The majority of my training isn't to kill, but to make myself better. Killing doesn't have to be involved, or overshadow training.

That would be a bummer and totally delineate my original purpose to train and put me in a bad place in my own mind...

As to your high school experiences, please elaborate on what kind of school lets you run around in clicks of 'fighters' where you would tangle with 20 other kids. Saying there's no way out so you could use your MA training says that there's a lot of other stuff you would need to work on, like social graces, word-jitsu, and anger management.

There could be another World War. Considering history and human nature, some might think it's only a matter of time. But unlike those fought in the past, the majority of those battles will be fought with bullets and bombs, not fists and feet.

Sorry, pressing your concepts on "killing someone" means you don't "get" your own art. At least not in the way that it's meant to be taught. Does your instructor condone such thinking? I'm getting, from your previous posts, that you take a lot of stock in the opinion of your instructor (s?)... maybe to a fault? Maybe too literal?

Take a look around in other MA studios/schools. Yes, there are folks out there who prepare for the worst-case scenario in order to defend those they love. It's grim, to be sure. But among that community, you'll find an over-abundance of personalities who savor, enjoy, love, and cherish human life... and train to understand that sort of defense has consequences, whether it be legal, moral, or spiritual.

What I'm saying is that merely posting this thread denotes certain faults within your own person that might need more attention than learning/contemplating "killing techniques." Considering the community at hand, I would trust their judgement. There's like, what, eleventy billion years of MA and LIFE experience in this forum?

Besides, I don't believe in Teh Death Touch...



I believe in the Konami Code:

Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A

Thankyou for salute...I know I am odd ball.

good on you yosh,

you might have found a better way to start the thread imo, but you stuck to your guns and fought back. good martial art spirit .

you might be a bit unorthadox in your questions and the way you put em,but you got BIG BALLS,to come back with all that.

salute.
 

mook jong man

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In the eyes of the law you have to show restraint and only do what is absolutely necessary to defend yourself .

Otherwise you will end up in the big house defending not only your centerline but your bootay as well .
 
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Yoshiyahu

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Yea, but if your defending your life or your love ones life...its a definite sacrifice to make...

Here are Six Martial Arts that are great for killing with your bare hands

http://www.scribd.com/doc/11505632/6-Great-Martial-Arts-for-Killing-a-Man-With-Your-Bare-Hands


Plus atleast you can use those death techniques in big house too to stop from being rape!


Here is good site that shows some deadly Techniques of Karate that can be used in Wing Chun as well. May note to hand strikes and low kicks.

The three Main killing points are the

1.Adams apple/throat

2.Back of the Head/neck

3.The Heart


Conclusion:

Scott
09-10-2000, 05:42 PM
VingTsunStudent, those 'really fast holds' you were talking about are called "trapping," something Wing Chun is reknowned for as a martial art.

I have to disagree. If you study Chin Na, the arm holds are very powerful, and once you do get someone in a lock; you are in a position where you can quickly kill them if need be. If not kill, then other devastating attacks that will end an attack even on the most drugged up body builder (Breaking the arm at the elbow and shoulder. Even if the pain doesn't stop him, you should be able to handle a one armed man.) If you are being attacked by an unknown attacker, I say use deadly force. If you know your opponent and the risk involved, then Chin Na or other non permenantely damaging techniques. Remember, Wing Chun was made to quickly kill or maim/disable soldiers. It doesn't really take into consideration the fact that you may not want to seriously harm your opponent. However, modern day must be more flexible than brute force.

Another note.. Imagine how fun it would be being a bouncer or something and using Chin Na on people. The arm bars and wrist locks and even finger locks would work great =) And no serious harm done.

However, VingTsunStudent, perhaps you should look at the mechanics of a Chin Na lock before you make a judgement. The basis of a lock is that your opponent CANNOT move without breaking the section of the body which you are holding. I personally do not think it is possible to purposefully break your arm or leg or wrist or whatever to free yourself from a lock, but if it is... All the better. Saying that you don't know if your opponent is incapable to lock is as true as saying you don't know if your opponent is capable of being hit. In many cases, locking and holds and throws are better. (Primarily against opponents with a severe height advantage.) Most holds are locks in Chin Na are done with the arms, but most strikes in Wing Chun are done to the face. You can see the disadvantage and advantages of using Chin Na. Then again, against an opponent who is *huge* (muscle bulk) Chin Ne can be expected to be less effective. It is your call in the end, because Wing Chun can get you out most 99% of hte tough situations out there; but the extra flexibility is very nice to have.

- Scott.

Heres the link:
http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-3709.html



In the eyes of the law you have to show restraint and only do what is absolutely necessary to defend yourself .

Otherwise you will end up in the big house defending not only your centerline but your bootay as well .
 
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mook jong man

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Plus atleast you can use those death techniques in big house too to stop from being rape!

I would just rather not go to the big house at all , I would be a target straight away as I am cursed with being rather pretty .

Anyway its not as if one bloke is going to come to your cell and say " Excuse me Mr Yoshiyahu old chap , umm I was wondering if it would be at all possible for us to have sex tonight ? " .

I've watched enough prison movies to know that its probably going be a whole gang of people that attack you , you can't fight them all , you might be good but your not that good.

P.S If you drop the soap in the shower just leave it there .
 
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Yoshiyahu

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Well practice arm and leg breaks against multiple attackers while striking the throats and back of the head with force. Atleast that way you won't have to many attackers who able to mount you with a broken limbs.



I would just rather not go to the big house at all , I would be a target straight away as I am cursed with being rather pretty .

Anyway its not as if one bloke is going to come to your cell and say " Excuse me Mr Yoshiyahu old chap , umm I was wondering if it would be at all possible for us to have sex tonight ? " .

I've watched enough prison movies to know that its probably going be a whole gang of people that attack you , you can't fight them all , you might be good but your not that good.

P.S If you drop the soap in the shower just leave it there .
 

Edmund BlackAdder

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Well practice arm and leg breaks against multiple attackers while striking the throats and back of the head with force. Atleast that way you won't have to many attackers who able to mount you with a broken limbs.
You do have this ongoing fear of being mounted it seems. Bad experiences in lock up I would imagine.
 
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Yoshiyahu

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Nah. I would just phoenix punch a bloke in his throat continously if he tried to mount me. An squeeze his groin and rip them forward. I would try to crush his man piece and rip it out if I could. When falls to his knees counter step behind him an twist his neck backwards until I hear a snap!

Then when he lays lifeless on the floor I would pretend like his chest is a stack of breaks to be broken with palm strike. That way I can make sure the **** doesn't come back for a seconds try.


Ha Ha just trying to get back on topic.


Thats just speaking hypothetically of course.
You do have this ongoing fear of being mounted it seems. Bad experiences in lock up I would imagine.
 

Eru Il繙vatar

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Yoshi, I must admit I'm starting to feel a bit stupid, as I seem to have enough "respect" for you to read you entire posts but you just seem to read every third word I write.

Please read again what I wrote to you befor on another thread:
You missed my point, Yoshi. The point was that I hope you don't maim/kill somebody, who got into a fight with you, for no real reason. That person could have their whole life ahead of him and maybe just had a bad day and ended up in a fight with you. To put it into a WC context: one of the major points of WC, I feel, is reacting to the problem/attack with the appropriate force/just the force that is needed to handle the problem at hand while doing it in a very straightforward way. Anything else would be an unnecesery waste of energy. That is also very true to the philosophy of Buddhisem on which WC is strongly based on. To take this point a bit further; there is a time and place for deadly force but WC is not about killing/maiming even tho it has killing/maiming techniques. Think about it.

If you read this in the first place you should have seen that I didn't say WC doesn't have killing/maiming techniques. All I said was that WC is all about reacting with the most suitible response. You don't do a Tan where a Bong is due neither vice versa.

I usualy don't respond to posts I don't agree with just to make them understand my opinion, as we are all entitled to are own opinion. But some posts that you make, I realy have to respond to. For example a quote of you from another thread:
If your out an about talking trash I will ignore you. If you throw things an curse me I will walk away. If you come over to me an get my face talking I still walk away. If you touch me or put your hands on me An i fear you can really hurt me I am going to try my best to kill you with WC.Rock on a ground.Knife.Stick or pen in the eye. Anything laying around.

I have read the article you posted some years ago. Before I write any further I would like to point out that as it says in the begining of the article this is a thesis of a student of Rick Spain for a level10 grading. This is only this particular guys viewpoint not neceserely the truth as you take it. The "fact" that WC was created for killing is your opinion. By which you are acctualy dumbfying the art.

The funny thing is that when I first started training, I came to my instructur with this same article(and others) and asked him what he thinks about this plusible examples of WC history. He said something along the lines that WC is to smart and too complex to have been developed in a time of war by soldiers or by thiefs and assasins by uneducated people. I didn't think much of the answer. But now some yoears later I'm starting to see truth in that more and more. It's a thinking mans art(heard that before?). I find it's smarter and more complex with every day I train it. Also the connections between Buddhist philosophy and WC are so severe that it's not likely a coincidence. C'mon, they even put in 2 Sam Bai Fut sections in 2 forms! Sam Bai Fut meaning the three bows to Buddha! Each bow having it's meaning.

Again, just so you will understand. I'm not saying WC doesn't have killing techniques nor that it doesn't use them. I'm saying just that like Buddhism, WC is all about reacting to a problem with just a needed amount of force. If killing maiming is required you really don't have no choice do you? But to say you would kill everbody that attacks you or that it was created for killing and war shows a very very limited understanding.

As for your fight experience... Yoshi! I'm not talking about fights in high school or at Gym class. Neither you being in a gang and beating up people. The fact that you were jumped by 10-20 people and survived tells me two things: either you are the best fighter I have ever heard of, or we have totaly diffrent definitions of a fight. I take it you have never been in a fight on the street, where somebody you didn't know wanted to hurt you badly? I had "fights" in high school and elementary school to, but sparring sessions I do this days are more intense/dangerous than thos "fights".

An I took your comments as mere concerns. Although I may have misintrepret them. You could be actually using satire But in either case thankyou for your concern.

The concern if there is any, is not for you. It's for a young guy whose life your going to take not becouse of any real reason but becouse of your mental issues. Hypotheticaly speaking.

1.What are you guys views on Killing Techniques? (Many You clearly hate the idea all together.)


2.Does your Kwoon teach them or hide them from you? (Alot of you guys I think may have never learn them.)


3.Are you interested in training to have killing power with your palm strikes and fist strikes? (You guys seem not to care about that part of WC or find it useless.)

1.The first question I have allready give you answers too if you read my post.

2.We were thought mostly finishing/lethal/maiming techniques. Doesn't mean I'll use them when a drunk guy will be pushing me arround.

3.I train Biu, sun fist and palm strikes for maximum power. If they are lethal or not is mostly dependent on the target area. You can kill relatvely easy even with a palm if you know how to strike.
 
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skinters

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The point was that I hope you don't maim/kill somebody, who got into a fight with you, for no real reason. That person could have their whole life ahead of him and maybe just had a bad day and ended up in a fight with you.

and what about the life of yosh? there might be a day when anyone has to fight for their life,and happens everyday.you say it in the way he wants to kill someone.

one of the major points of WC, I feel, is reacting to the problem/attack with the appropriate force/just the force that is needed to handle the problem at hand while doing it in a very straightforward way.

this is your personal point of veiw, and has statisticly no real evidence,that this kind of calm measured almost mythical approach really works,and in the real world violence that is hard fast and decisive,going all in,usualy gets the job done.

there is a time and place for deadly force but WC is not about killing/maiming even tho it has killing/maiming techniques. Think about it.

you can never pick the TIME or PLACE when to fight for your life.how absurd.how can it have killing techniques,and not be about it?

I usualy don't respond to posts I don't agree with just to make them understand my opinion

yes you do.we all do

The "fact" that WC was created for killing is your opinion. By which you are acctualy dumbfying the art.

you remark in absolutes,as in the absolute truth.and where is his right to opinion?

The funny thing is that when I first started training, I came to my instructur with this same article(and others) and asked him what he thinks about this plusible examples of WC history. He said something along the lines that WC is to smart and too complex to have been developed in a time of war by soldiers or by thiefs and assasins by uneducated people.
. I didn't think much of the answer. But now some yoears later I'm starting to see truth in that more and more.

may i suggest your first gut instinct was right.
 
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skinters

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It's a thinking mans art(heard that before?).

once to many.

Also the connections between Buddhist philosophy and WC are so severe that it's not likely a coincidence. C'mon, they even put in 2 Sam Bai Fut sections in 2 forms! Sam Bai Fut meaning the three bows to Buddha! Each bow having it's meaning.

again,even further removed from reality,and boarders on the religous.

As for your fight experience... Yoshi! I'm not talking about fights in high school or at Gym class. Neither you being in a gang and beating up people. The fact that you were jumped by 10-20 people and survived tells me two things: either you are the best fighter I have ever heard of, or we have totaly diffrent definitions of a fight. I take it you have never been in a fight on the street, where somebody you didn't know wanted to hurt you badly? I had "fights" in high school and elementary school to, but sparring sessions I do this days are more intense/dangerous than thos "fights".

i suggest you ARE talking about fights in highschool or gym class,as you refer it to your own experience.the fact he survived being jumped on,tells me he was extemely lucky,to get out in one peice. also your sparring sessions being harder than scraps at school is hardly difficult eh ?

we have all had scraps and slaps while in school but thats all they were petty scraps.compare this with a 16 stone drunk man,smashing up the place and he wants some,ever had that ?
 
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Seeker

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What exactly are these mystical killing techniques anyhow?

Oh wait, I do know some, I learned them in the strip mall right next to the Hallmark store. When I was doing Karate, our Sensei told us that just about every move in our kata could kill someone... in an instant!

We even had that poster of the underwear clad guy striking a pose with one arm raised in the air, hanging in our dojo.

We were told that a punch/kick to the solar plexus would stun a man's diaphragm causing him to suffocate, a backfist to the temple would cause the skull to disassemble its self and the brain explode, etc, yadda yadda.

All of those prearranged moves we did in our one-step, the ones that could never be pulled off in our point-style free sparing (much less against a raging drunk) were deadly beyond belief.

But you know, at many points during my 41 years on Earth I have been hit (hard) in most of those magic killer spots and I still type this post from this side of our realm.

So... what are these instant death strikes? I can find plans to build a nuclear bomb on the web, but I cannot seem to find those deadly techniques anywhere.

I guess Ill just have to wait until my Count Dante Dan-ta manual arrives in the mail, I sent away for it oh, about 1973.

Any day now, enlightenment.
 

Xue Sheng

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I understand how you feel Xue. Martial Arts is a war art. How is learning how to eradicate a possible serial killer or murderer of your life or love ones disrespect? I just don't understand why you guys feel that way? I don't live in fear or in dread everyday. I just think outside the box. My Sihing said that alot of Sifu's now and days hide information because they feel too much info to Gwalo will make them worst adversaries.

My Sifu also hated the idea that many people watered down their arts for profits. My Sifu never condones killing innocent people or hurting people. He never says to be a tyrant or menace. He always advocated humility and kindness. But he also shared that fighting is not a game. An when he demostrated killing techniques he would always say this is only in life threathen situtations. If use this on the public your going to jail. He always say this move is to kill with but don't use it. He always demanded restraint and feared rasining killers. I have never killed anyone...so in 15 years of training I guess He did pretty good.

Could you do me a favor and stop bolding your responses that is unless you mean to come across like you are yelling. :asian:

And in over 30 years of MA I have only done one thing I am not at all proud of but no one was killed

Also did you mean gwailo when you wrote gwalo?

If so I am a gwailo since that is a Southern Chinese (Cantonese) for white people, not a nice one, but it is what it is.

My Taiji Sifu is Southern Chinese and he is teaching me all there is to know about his flavor of Yang Taiji, I am his last serious student. Not because I am all that good but I am the only one that appears to want to know the real stuff and he is tired of trying to get others interested in it since all they appear to want is to learn the long form and then run off and teach, not listen to corrections and tell him what they want to learn and not listen to what he wants to teach them.

My Sanda Sifu is Northern Chinese and he is also teaching me all there is to know about Sanda but he will not teach anyone he does not know and trust.

It is ,in some cases, that these Chinese sifus do not teach us gwailo because we are not ready to learn it yet or they simply do not trust our motives for learning. And as I have said many times before (and this came as a rather hard lesson to me) a good Sifu knows better than you do as to what you are ready to learn. It just appears that we here in the west and recently also in the east simple do not want to believe that and do not have the patience to wait.

I am done here, a post on killing moves is simply wrong and rather disrespectful to those that we learn from and I will contribute no more to this.
 

skinters

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said:


I am done here, a post on killing moves is simply wrong and rather disrespectful to those that we learn from and I will contribute no more to this.

you wont find a finer example of self-righteousness.
 

Xue Sheng

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you wont find a finer example of self-righteousness.


selfrighteous - confident of one's own righteousness, esp. when smugly moralistic and intolerant of the opinions and behavior of others.

Well I am sure confident in my beliefs on this topic but smug, moralistic and intolerant , not sure about that... call it what you will...
 

skinters

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selfrighteous - confident of one's own righteousness, esp. when smugly moralistic and intolerant of the opinions and behavior of others.

Well I am sure confident in my beliefs on this topic but smug, moralistic and intolerant , not sure about that... call it what you will...

so much for you being done here.

i find it astounding,that you do not have to talk about killing techniques to realise this whole forum pays tribute to its very practice,and anyone of them can and are used to do that very thing,in one form or another.

yosh made a mistake in the way he worded all this and his way of putting things could in hindsight have been discussed in another way.either way it had done its purpose in the way everyone has an opinion on it.also its not as if there is a list here of killer techniques for the unwary to happen apon,the whole site pays homage to it.
 

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Nah. I would just phoenix punch a bloke in his throat continously if he tried to mount me. An squeeze his groin and rip them forward. I would try to crush his man piece and rip it out if I could. When falls to his knees counter step behind him an twist his neck backwards until I hear a snap!

Then when he lays lifeless on the floor I would pretend like his chest is a stack of breaks to be broken with palm strike. That way I can make sure the **** doesn't come back for a seconds try.


Ha Ha just trying to get back on topic.


Thats just speaking hypothetically of course.

Regarding this post. IMHO, I think you're honestly hoping for things that in reality, probably won't happen. I'm going to guess that you've never had a good grappler roll with you, because if you had, I'm 99.99% sure, that you may not be able to pull off the above mentioned things.

As for the OP....many arts have 'killing' techniques. However, IMHO, I would suggest, that you assess each situation and base your response off of that. An intoxicated friend at a party who starts to rough house with you vs. someone who is trying to take your life, should result in 2 very different responses from you. Unless you think you'd enjoy spending life in prison for killing a drunk friend who innocently puts you in a headlock, then go right on with it.

The martial arts are not always about kicking *** and taking names. If all you have in your toolbox are things that will take a life, I seriously suggest that you take another look at your training and your teacher.
 

Hagakure

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I guess in reality, any art, any martial artist, any untrained thug can kill accidentally. What happens if you hit someone that you intended to injure, and you end up killing them? I'd say it's probably easy to talk a good killing, and a crap sight harder to live with it afterwards.

Not knocking your thread Yoshi, more putting a question out there. :)
 
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Yoshiyahu

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Hakarue you are correct. You can accidentally kill someone if you don't know what you doing. I know in past certain points on head I would strike when I was younger not realizing that with enough force they could kill. Now I am weary of attacking those spots even in a eraged brawl...



But I hear you guys go over and over about some guy who is drunk? Either you guys are some alcoholics or you only fight drunks. Either case seems pretty grim to me...wow it must be alot drunks out there looking for a fight. I for one never been in bar fight...I think those things only happen on Television...

As for a poor drunk who attacks me. Well to kill him I don't need WC. Or any death techniques. I can use a inch knife to slice his juglarly.


But if you were a drunk guy attacking me. If I could I would first aim for your legs with a low stomp kick to your knee or side step to kick the side of knee as hard as I could. I would also make your groin my target. If I could I would also chop your throat to make you choke an then chain punch your nose hard and fast.


This would be my strategem against a drunkard.


I wouldnt follow those guidelines verbatim. Like if the guy is running with his head down...I might run to side or grab a chair an hit him ontop of the head or something....


Wing Chun was developed by Soldiers. It was developed my Monks and Nuns grandmasters for the soldiers to use in combat. Very great minds developed WC. Along with that WC science and drastic innovations have came about by great thinkers over the years. So it has changed alot since its original inception making it more complex.


The fights in highschool wasn't me being in a gang. Infact i stayed from gangs. All my friends were Ma's or wrestlers. But ne way. This group of crips like to pick on people. after or first two confrontation they were less likely to all out jump us. They were cautious. As for surviving...they couldnt touch me for real because most of the time I was running. Throwing people who got to close. Blocking an trapping their guards an sweeping their legs. After hitting the ground an my other buddy pounding them with his massive fist...they loss the will to fight.


Eru Il繳vatar;1129827 said:
Yoshi, I must admit I'm starting to feel a bit stupid, as I seem to have enough "respect" for you to read you entire posts but you just seem to read every third word I write.

Please read again what I wrote to you befor on another thread:
You missed my point, Yoshi. The point was that I hope you don't maim/kill somebody, who got into a fight with you, for no real reason. That person could have their whole life ahead of him and maybe just had a bad day and ended up in a fight with you. To put it into a WC context: one of the major points of WC, I feel, is reacting to the problem/attack with the appropriate force/just the force that is needed to handle the problem at hand while doing it in a very straightforward way. Anything else would be an unnecesery waste of energy. That is also very true to the philosophy of Buddhisem on which WC is strongly based on. To take this point a bit further; there is a time and place for deadly force but WC is not about killing/maiming even tho it has killing/maiming techniques. Think about it.

If you read this in the first place you should have seen that I didn't say WC doesn't have killing/maiming techniques. All I said was that WC is all about reacting with the most suitible response. You don't do a Tan where a Bong is due neither vice versa.

I usualy don't respond to posts I don't agree with just to make them understand my opinion, as we are all entitled to are own opinion. But some posts that you make, I realy have to respond to. For example a quote of you from another thread:


I have read the article you posted some years ago. Before I write any further I would like to point out that as it says in the begining of the article this is a thesis of a student of Rick Spain for a level10 grading. This is only this particular guys viewpoint not neceserely the truth as you take it. The "fact" that WC was created for killing is your opinion. By which you are acctualy dumbfying the art.

The funny thing is that when I first started training, I came to my instructur with this same article(and others) and asked him what he thinks about this plusible examples of WC history. He said something along the lines that WC is to smart and too complex to have been developed in a time of war by soldiers or by thiefs and assasins by uneducated people. I didn't think much of the answer. But now some yoears later I'm starting to see truth in that more and more. It's a thinking mans art(heard that before?). I find it's smarter and more complex with every day I train it. Also the connections between Buddhist philosophy and WC are so severe that it's not likely a coincidence. C'mon, they even put in 2 Sam Bai Fut sections in 2 forms! Sam Bai Fut meaning the three bows to Buddha! Each bow having it's meaning.

Again, just so you will understand. I'm not saying WC doesn't have killing techniques nor that it doesn't use them. I'm saying just that like Buddhism, WC is all about reacting to a problem with just a needed amount of force. If killing maiming is required you really don't have no choice do you? But to say you would kill everbody that attacks you or that it was created for killing and war shows a very very limited understanding.

As for your fight experience... Yoshi! I'm not talking about fights in high school or at Gym class. Neither you being in a gang and beating up people. The fact that you were jumped by 10-20 people and survived tells me two things: either you are the best fighter I have ever heard of, or we have totaly diffrent definitions of a fight. I take it you have never been in a fight on the street, where somebody you didn't know wanted to hurt you badly? I had "fights" in high school and elementary school to, but sparring sessions I do this days are more intense/dangerous than thos "fights".



The concern if there is any, is not for you. It's for a young guy whose life your going to take not becouse of any real reason but becouse of your mental issues. Hypotheticaly speaking.



1.The first question I have allready give you answers too if you read my post.

2.We were thought mostly finishing/lethal/maiming techniques. Doesn't mean I'll use them when a drunk guy will be pushing me arround.

3.I train Biu, sun fist and palm strikes for maximum power. If they are lethal or not is mostly dependent on the target area. You can kill relatvely easy even with a palm if you know how to strike.
 

bs10927

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Hakarue you are correct. You can accidentally kill someone if you don't know what you doing. I know in past certain points on head I would strike when I was younger not realizing that with enough force they could kill. Now I am weary of attacking those spots even in a eraged brawl...



But I hear you guys go over and over about some guy who is drunk? Either you guys are some alcoholics or you only fight drunks. Either case seems pretty grim to me...wow it must be alot drunks out there looking for a fight. I for one never been in bar fight...I think those things only happen on Television...

aren't fighting drunks annoying? LOL. they kill my buzz.
hey, when you were jumped into your clique in 8th grade.....were the people you were jumping Crips?
 
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