Kenpo and Boxing

Entryteam

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I live in an area thats considered a long time boxing area so I know and have also trained in both boxing and kickboxing.
Agreed, boxing is not the best all around martial art however in the street a boxer can stand his own.
There is no martial art that is best suited for the street. Every art has it's strong points and weak points.
Boxers, much like the MMA boys, can take serious punishment. I have seen many boxers train well into their 50's and 60's. These older boxers do not fight in the ring anymore but they still do "club house" light matches.
Boxing is an art, they just don't stand there and trade strikes. They use,
*various types of blocks including "bob and weaves",
*utilize various types of footwork,
*apply tactics,
*use modern training techniques
*each school has their own "battle tested" presets,
*practice live drills,
*use all types of striking equipment.
If you stand across from an equally skilled boxer you will get hurt, badly.
:ubercool:


LawDog speaks the truth.
 

Entryteam

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i was just trying to AGREE with the posters who supported the idea that boxing training would benefit any Kenpo practitioner. Did i do something wrong?
 

Flying Crane

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i was just trying to AGREE with the posters who supported the idea that boxing training would benefit any Kenpo practitioner. Did i do something wrong?

no, not exactly, but the way you expressed your opinion was a little over the top. I mean, that really WAS a sweeping generalization, and one that a number of experienced kenpoists and students of other arts would not agree with.

If you like boxing, then train boxing. If you feel YOUR kenpo could benefit from training in boxing, then box. If you want to train boxing to have a better idea of what a boxer might do if you had to fight him, then train in boxing. Nobody's going to argue with you about that.

But when you make a statement proclaiming that kenpo needs boxing to improve it, and anyone who can't see that is nuts (my paraphrase of your statement), you are going to get some arguments. Not everyone here feels it's necessary, and I'd wager that a number of people here might see it as detrimental to their kenpo.

Don't be shy about joining the discussion. But if you make strong statements, you are going to take a bit of heat for them.

Welcome aboard.
 

LawDog

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Entryteam,
You shouldn't feel like you did something wrong by expressing your point of view, you should stand by it. Everyone has their own opinon about things and this is what makes life so interesting. At one time or another almost everyone here has been attacked by expressing their point of view. Unless proven wrong the strong will stand by it.
Lawdog.
 

Entryteam

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I guess I just felt that the MANNER in which I did it came across wrong, not the CONTENT. I still believe and stand by what I said.

Just being a peacemaker is all.

Thanks, Lawdog.
 

Hand Sword

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Just some food for thought. Since the end of January I've been lifting, running, and Martial Arting. Within the last few months, I've been full blast on all like a beast. No longer sore after workouts and gaining a little strength, in the spirit of this thread, I tried a boxing workout. A little while getting 5 punches down, then one more added for a 6 punch combo. Then 6- 3 minute rounds, starting with 2 punches, then adding the next each round, until all 6 go for 2 rounds.

Guess what!

In spite of the weights, and the Martial arts full bore--upper body is stiff and a little sore-LOL!! So, for the sake of the thread, For body and muscle development, the 2 arts go very well together. Each prepares differently.

Side note: It was a great experience!
 

Flying Crane

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I guess I just felt that the MANNER in which I did it came across wrong, not the CONTENT. I still believe and stand by what I said.

Just being a peacemaker is all.

Thanks, Lawdog.


I agree with what Lawdog said, if you believe in what you say, don't be afraid to say it. But don't be surprised if people disagree and debate and argue with you about it. Goes with the territory.
 

Danjo

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Anyone who says that a kenpo person would NOT benefit from some boxing training has lost his mind.

You're presuming that someone's Kenpo is lacking in such a way that they would automatically benefit from boxing. In fact, you're saying that everyone in Kenpo is lacking something that can only be cured by training in boxing, and if the Kenpoist disagrees, then he or she has lost their mind.

As I said before, I repeat here: the cure for bad Kenpo training is good Kenpo training, not boxing. Nothing wrong with boxing per se, but it's not the cure for poor Kenpo training.
 

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It has nothing to do with whether or not their kenpo is lacking... it's that anyone can benefit from boxing. The conditioning, the timing, the defense, the alive training environment, learning to take and give hits/punishment.... anyone can benefit from this. And i honestly don't see how anyone can miss that.

-R


You're presuming that someone's Kenpo is lacking in such a way that they would automatically benefit from boxing. In fact, you're saying that everyone in Kenpo is lacking something that can only be cured by training in boxing, and if the Kenpoist disagrees, then he or she has lost their mind.

As I said before, I repeat here: the cure for bad Kenpo training is good Kenpo training, not boxing. Nothing wrong with boxing per se, but it's not the cure for poor Kenpo training.
 

Flying Crane

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It has nothing to do with whether or not their kenpo is lacking... it's that anyone can benefit from boxing. The conditioning, the timing, the defense, the alive training environment, learning to take and give hits/punishment.... anyone can benefit from this. And i honestly don't see how anyone can miss that.

-R

If boxing had the monopoly on the best ways of doing things, then everyone would box and there would be nothing but boxing.

Howabout if I turn what you have said around and approach it from the opposite side: It isn't that boxing or other methods are lacking, it's just that anybody can benefit from training kenpo. The down and dirty approach, the "anything goes" mentality, the disregard for rules that limit competitive pugilistic sports...anyone can benefit from this. And I honestly don't see how anyone can miss that.

do you agree with this?
 

Danjo

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It has nothing to do with whether or not their kenpo is lacking... it's that anyone can benefit from boxing. The conditioning, the timing, the defense, the alive training environment, learning to take and give hits/punishment.... anyone can benefit from this. And i honestly don't see how anyone can miss that.

-R

You're presuming that their Kenpo is lacking the things you mention: conditioning, timing, defense, alive training , learning to take hits etc. and that they need boxing to get them. That may not be the case that one's Kenpo lacks these things, and if it is, then they should implement them with their Kenpo, not by adding boxing IMO.

To me it's like arguing that one should play tennis to improve one's baseball skills. Both involve hitting a ball with an implement and require accuracy and coordination etc., but they are totally different.

If one were already well versed in boxing and wanted to beef up one's street abilities, then they should look into "Dirty Boxing" or "Extreme Boxing" as it is sometimes called to round out what they already know how to do. The above will teach them low level kicks, elbows and knees, head butts, use of the shoulders as striking weapons, rabbit punching, hammer fists and chops, ear cupping, etc. etc. and make their sportive art into a well rounded self defense art. All of it will enhance what they already know. But I wouldn't tell them to study Kenpo to improve their boxing.
 
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MJS

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I view the boxing the same way I do the grappling and the weapons work, that I do outside of Kenpo. My goal with the grappling isn't to spend another 20yrs learning every sub, lock and choke, but instead to take some of the basics, drill the hell out of them and add them to my toolbox. I think we've talked about the pros and cons of boxing. In no way am I trying to become a pro boxer, any more than I'm trying to become a world class grappler. I think that its safe to say that people could and most likely would benefit from boxing like training, just like they'd benefit from some solid ground work. :)
 

Flying Crane

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I think everyone ought to take a good hard look at their own kenpo, their own training, and how they do it. Then decide if something is lacking. If so, what might be the best way to shore it up. Make a decision for yourself and your own kenpo. But stop trying to tell everyone else what they need. Everyone ought to make their own assessment and decision about this.

Talking about what YOU get out of something is one thing. But telling everyone else that THEY need to do something is quite another. Honestly, it's obnoxious.
 

Entryteam

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we'll have to agree to disagree then.



You're presuming that their Kenpo is lacking the things you mention: conditioning, timing, defense, alive training , learning to take hits etc. and that they need boxing to get them. That may not be the case that one's Kenpo lacks these things, and if it is, then they should implement them with their Kenpo, not by adding boxing IMO.

To me it's like arguing that one should play tennis to improve one's baseball skills. Both involve hitting a ball with an implement and require accuracy and coordination etc., but they are totally different.

If one were already well versed in boxing and wanted to beef up one's street abilities, then they should look into "Dirty Boxing" or "Extreme Boxing" as it is sometimes called to round out what they already know how to do. The above will teach them low level kicks, elbows and knees, head butts, use of the shoulders as striking weapons, rabbit punching, hammer fists and chops, ear cupping, etc. etc. and make their sportive art into a well rounded self defense art. All of it will enhance what they already know. But I wouldn't tell them to study Kenpo to improve their boxing.
 

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NOT a blanket statement.... and I said I disagreed with him and we'd just have to agree to disagree. I don't have to point out ANYTHING about Danjo, as I didn't say anything about him in the first place.
 

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