Striking In Boxing and MMA.

MJS

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
30,187
Reaction score
428
Location
Cromwell,CT
I came across this article on another forum and thought I'd post it here for discussion. The main point of the article seems to be the discussion of the differences in strikes between MMA and Boxing.

Link


As Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) skyrockets in popularity, the resistance of mainstream media outlets (Sports Illustrated and ESPN) has historically probably been due to a fear of pro-wrestling combined with old-school boxing writers lack of understanding. Boxing writers love boxing; and they often feel, correctly, that MMA fighters usually arent the best boxers.

They may not realize that the guy in there who is boxing so badly is an Olympic wrestler and submission expertbut strict boxing fans mentally turn-off the moment the fight hits the ground, and so are unable to appreciate the skill and art of ground-fighting. Ground-and-pound is a rough art. But MMA fans who get the ground game will take as much joy from a ground war as they will a stand-up one.

There is more to the debate, howeverMMA striking is fundamentally different than boxing, for a variety of reasons. Over years of observing the sport, I kept noticing pro boxers making the switch to MMA and getting out-struck. When Jens Pulver fought Takanori Gomi in 2004 in Pride, Jens had been winning pro boxing fights and knocking people out; I thought there was no way in hell Gomi could stand with him, but Jens was outgunned by a bigger man and lost by TKO.
 

tellner

Senior Master
Joined
Nov 18, 2005
Messages
4,379
Reaction score
236
Location
Orygun
That's an excellent article. It's insightful, informative and clear. Thanks for posting it.
 

seasoned

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
11,052
Reaction score
1,042
Location
Syracuse, New York
There is more to the debate, howeverMMA striking is fundamentally different than boxing, for a variety of reasons. Over years of observing the sport, I kept noticing pro boxers making the switch to MMA and getting out-struck.

It is a good artical, thanks for posting it. With some observations of mine over the years here is what I feel. Because of the big gloves boxers wear they put more body into there punches. As the gloves get smaller or lighter you dont need as much body but more snap. Over the years my MA teacher did not advacate using the punching bag to much for this reason. Because of bare nuckles MA people train for their power in a differant way. I will add that I have been knocked down by a boxer in the past and I have a healthy respect for their art, but I was told years ago to never put boxing gloves on with a boxer. With gloves on it is hard to dig those two hard nuckles into the target.
 

rutherford

Master Black Belt
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
1,194
Reaction score
13
Location
Vermont, USA
I, and those people involved with RMAX, disagree. MMA and Boxing are different due to rules of engagement. The strategies that will prove successful and tactics available are dictated by these rules of engagement and the specific environment and opponent. Whenever the environment, opponent, or rules of engagement change, you must adapt your whole strategy and implement it with strong tactics.

However, the functional mechanics are the same. Good body mechanics are good body mechanics. A poorly thrown punch in always a poorly thrown punch, no matter what the intentions of your opponent.
 

Andrew Green

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 1, 2004
Messages
8,627
Reaction score
448
Location
Winnipeg MB
The mechanics of a good punch may be the same regardless, but the usage of it are very different. Jabs can hurt a lot more, and can get you taken down. Gloves are smaller and fit through smaller holes. Lots of bobbing and weaving will likely get you kicked in the head. Hands are taped and gloved, but not to the extent they are in boxing, so there is a bigger chance of breaking a hand, thumbs are loose and not tied down, clinching is a bigger issue. In boxing a fighter can pretty much stall out by clinching and getting seperated. In MMA the other guy clinching is not going to get the ref to seperate, but is a big part of the fight, so you can't leave yourself as open to it.

Mechanics are the same, but if you try to fight a MMA match like a boxing match you won't do very well.

Same as if you try to approach a MMA match as a straight BJJ, wrestling or Muay Thai match.
 

mjd

Green Belt
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
190
Reaction score
0
Location
Carthage, Ill
MMA striking and boxing are completely different, done from different movement, from different angles, with different defensives tactics in mind.

A boxer is not concerned with defending against a take down or leg kick, his mechanics are all upperbody with the legs acting as support and trust push into the pucnh. Head movement, shoulder movement, with the arms and hands the primary defense. Boxing attack tactics leave themsleves open to MMA attacks.

Try it for yourself, try just boxing a good MMA guy, he'll eat your lunch, but I think the MMA guy's are starting to evlove into better sriking or boxing skills, this is going to bring in a hole new fighter type, it will be interesting.
 

rutherford

Master Black Belt
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
1,194
Reaction score
13
Location
Vermont, USA
Of course boxing must alter tactically to be effective in MMA. As Andrew points out, any one-dimensional fighter is going to be at a severe disadvantage.

But tactics are always going to have to change. They change from Opponent to Opponent. We've recently seen a lot of examples of great UFC fighters bringing the wrong game to an opponent and losing badly as a result.

The idea that there is some kind of fundamental difference between striking, clinching, grappling, is one of the things that is holding back a lot of athletes. Instead of unifying their movement into a complete whole, they see and train as if there is some sort of artifical divide.
 

seasoned

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
11,052
Reaction score
1,042
Location
Syracuse, New York
The mechanics of a good punch may be the same regardless, but the usage of it are very different.
Mechanics are the same, but if you try to fight a MMA match like a boxing match you won't do very well.

I can't help but feel that the words boxers fracture of the hand tell me that the punch may be coming in wrong. Granted I don't want to get hit by it but the hand conditioning of MA lends itself to hand preservation so as to defend against more then One person. Boxers dont pin point their punches. The gloved hand takes a different kind of power to throw a power punch. It is a sledge hammer type of power where the MA punch using just (2) knuckles and will penetrate better. In a match with a boxer, you do what you do, and let them do what they do. Boxers glove their hand to protect the hand, MA should never glove theirs unless it is a sport event, then it is not a karate punch anymore.
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,357
Reaction score
4,655
Location
England
The stances in boxing and MMA are different, they have to be. In MMA you have to watch being taken down as well as being ready to kick and be kicked. Boxing stance makes it hard to throw kicks as well as punch, knee and whatever else you are planning on doing! Most of our fighters are Muay Thai/TKD/Karate trained, they all punch hard and accurately, most would do very well in a boxing match. Another thing most martial artists do but boxers don't is to switch stances.I may start in left fighting stance but will change to right and back again, a boxer finds this fairly confusing to deal with.
 

seasoned

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
11,052
Reaction score
1,042
Location
Syracuse, New York
The stances in boxing and MMA are different, they have to be. In MMA you have to watch being taken down as well as being ready to kick and be kicked. Boxing stance makes it hard to throw kicks as well as punch, knee and whatever else you are planning on doing! Most of our fighters are Muay Thai/TKD/Karate trained, they all punch hard and accurately, most would do very well in a boxing match. Another thing most martial artists do but boxers don't is to switch stances.I may start in left fighting stance but will change to right and back again, a boxer finds this fairly confusing to deal with.

Good points
 

Em MacIntosh

3rd Black Belt
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
917
Reaction score
16
Location
Lynn Valley, North Vancouver, BC, CA
Another thing most martial artists do but boxers don't is to switch stances.I may start in left fighting stance but will change to right and back again, a boxer finds this fairly confusing to deal with.

Changing stances is one of my favorite tactics and one of the first things to employ. I bet a lot of boxers do already, but isn't it effective to be able to fight south paw as well?
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,357
Reaction score
4,655
Location
England
Boxers will only fight in one stance, usually orthodox. In fact I heard one boxer suggest southpaws are unatural and should be put down at birth lol! I think he was only joking!
 

Latest Discussions

Top