Kata or not to Kata, That is the Question

[VSanhodo]

Hi Folks

Many schools still teach Kata while others think Kata is a bunch of BS. Now me personally I believe in the 3 - Ks.
Kihon (Fundamentals), Kata (Forms / Patterns), Kumite (Fighting / Sparring). Further I am big time belier in Kata and in the learning of the Bunkai (Combative application of Kata). I truly believe in my heart of hearts that the vast majority of ppl who dont like and / or dont do Kata are ppl who have not seen or had good Kata / Bunkai explained to the them.
Ok so know you know where I stand. I would love to hear from each of you.

What do you like, dislike about Kata????
What do you believe is the purpose of Kata????

All posts are encouraged and welcome.
Thanks
San

 

[jfarnsworth]

Yes, keep them. They are a good learning tool. Too many good things to list about them. In my TKD day's I didn't like them but now as I get older and have a much better understanding they are an invalueable tool. :asian:

 

[FearlessFreep]

I find tha doing forms reinforces and refines basic principles that are very important to always be aware of. Evn simple things like 180 or 270 degree turns, practicing forms helps me to really focus on proper foot placement, proper pressure in pushing off and proper landing. Just recently I've been more exposed to some principles of beingf reaxed and only tensing with power and pop at the focus point of a technique (block, punch or kick) and I find that if I apply that in practicing forms it helps to keep it engrained as a natural response in self-defense and sparring, etc..

Anyway, forms can be pretty boring unless you break it down and look at what each move can teach you and realize what doing the move is perfectly as possible can carry over into the rest of your application

Forms are a lot like scale practices in music; can be boring as anything to do, but taking thie time to do them, to do them right with strong focus and concentration, can make a big difference in the long run

 

[terryl965]

Kata, Poomse, Forms are a major part of anybodys training we work on them all the time. They help bring the best out of me and my students. The fundamentals that they teach along with the discipline. Where can you get that from.

 

[MichiganTKD]

The people who dislike forms tend to be ones who misunderstand them. Forms are an invaluable method of teaching martial art fundementals. These include: coordination, balance, grace, when to be relaxed, when to be strong, physical development, and techniques required for each belt level.
Rather than just teaching techniques for each rank, which can be hard to process due to the inherent randomness of them, forms gives you a framework to work with at each level. You will always have techniques that you CAN do at each belt level. Forms gives you a framework by saying "These are the techniques you MUST know at this rank and how to do and apply them. All others are just peripheral once you understand these."
You could literally spend days on each form analyzing them to see how the techniques are applied and what you are really doing.

 

[VSanhodo]

Thanks for the posts and keep them coming. I too agree that froms are an intergral part of a personal Martial Arts Development. I see forms like the ABC's. An A or B or C etc by itself may not make much sense but when combines with other letters / movements and a better understanding of how to put letter and phrases / movements together they tend to make much more sense.
I asked my instructor how many forms he knew? His reply was priceless, He asked back, How many froms know or can do??? I asked what was the difference. He said Can do mayber over 100 forms, include weapon forms, but maybe really only know maybe 1 or 2.
In the USA we tend to believe if we do something 10 or 20 times we have done it enough and I hate to use this phrase but we feel as though we have mastered it. Mr Tanaka use to say, as you grow in the arts and as you mature not only in the arts but in life your prospectvie changes as well, which means your froms are contantly evolving and changing.
Clealry the way I used to do and understand forms 35 years ago is far far different from the way I do them know and my understanding of them now.
Thanks again fro your posts and keep them coming.
San

 

[Miles]

Kata/Poomsae/Kuen-these are invaluable.

They are the encyclopedia of the respective art. When you see a talented martial artist performing a poomsae well, it is awesome.

The poomsae teach a number of things as has been mentioned. The other thing is that they can be performed alone-that is their beauty and genius.

Miles

 

[MountainSage]

I will agree that forms are a very important part of training, particularly for those of use that are unable to attend practice on a regular basis, yet there are some problems that I have become aware of in the taeguk forms of WTF TKD, my chosen MA. A form must follow a logical progression that has purpose that can be defined to a student and skills that have application in the "real world". Forms must mimic reality to be of the most value.

Mountainsage

 

[masherdong]

I love katas and I feel that they build up your respiratory breathing and endurance. I love it because I think it also helps you learn your required techniques as well.

 

[Infrazael]

Choy Lay Fut forms own.

Because all movements are essentially combos when taken out.

But then again, over-excessive practice of kata and nothing else is very damaging as well.

 

[searcher]

I love the use of kata. On their own they are a nice workout. With large groups they work well for teaching purposes. They are very much needed to understand what your art has and what it doesn't. Without them one corner of your houses foundation is missing. This will lead to your house caving in over time.

 

[mj-hi-yah]

I have come to really appreciate doing forms. From the perspective of a teacher, forms help to teach basics (blocks, punches etc., including stances and maneuvering). From the perspective of a student, as I progress in my art my forms practice is aiding in the development of fluidity in my movement. I think everyone should videotape themselves periodically to see how their movement in their forms changes over time. It is also a great exercise to slow the tape down and see where your movements need improvement in terms of timing and accuracy. It's an eye opener! I also like to work my forms sometimes with a partner to see and work the applications, and found that the experience of creating a personal form forced me to assess my movements in terms of applications of self defense moves. I learned a lot about the difference between what just looks cool, and what really works. Sometimes they are the same! :supcool:

 

[MJS]

Forms definately have their place. Like it was already mentioned, it is very important IMO, to make sure you have someone who can fully explain what the movements are. Getting the reply of, "Well...because thats the way its done!" IMO does not answer what the moves are.

It is also important to incorporate sparring into your training as well, to help round out your forms training.

Mike

 

[47MartialMan]

What people cannot understand is that the forms were the old way of recording tactics. They didnt have cameras or video back then. Also, form develop limb awareness and help in balance.

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

Practicing poomse (hyung/kata/forms, etc.) is my favorite part of studying my own martial art. I think that they're invaluable to furthering the understanding of the various techniques of one's art... :ultracool

 

[47MartialMan]

Forms must not get "carried away" with flash. Such as those elaborate ones in competition.


When I was "in" the "tournament circuit", we had created forms using defense application and weapons of household varities. Not to boast, but we had seem to place high in most levels.

One form had demostrated the person getting hit, being thrown, kicked on the ground, and amongst other tactics that shown how to "cover up"-just to describe one.

These weren't flashy, bored the audience, but interested the judges.

 

[terryl965]

Those flashy XMA form are not like traditional forms most traditional forms do not have all the gymnastics aspect to them, also form are a big part of any MA training. One should never overlook the obvilous.

 

[47MartialMan]

Those flashy XMA form are not like traditional forms most traditional forms do not have all the gymnastics aspect to them, also form are a big part of any MA training. One should never overlook the obvilous.

This is the point I am making.

Ours weren't flashy. there were simple and practical. they were "beating" the flashy ones.

To this day, these forms are used in advance training as a means to learn how to perform certain practical tactics.

 

[searcher]

This is the point I am making.

Ours weren't flashy. there were simple and practical. they were "beating" the flashy ones.

To this day, these forms are used in advance training as a means to learn how to perform certain practical tactics.

This is how it was put to me by a tournament promoter in my area about forms. "Traditional is to boring and deos not sell tickets or increase a school's enrollment." He is still pushing thew flash to this day and making a very nice living at it.

 

[47MartialMan]

Depends on who is judging....