Provoking a Kata Response...

Bill Mattocks

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As most know, kata is a set pattern of movements that simulates defenses and strikes against an opponent. Bunkai is the interpretation of specific ways those moves could be used. In many dojos, students are encouraged to perform their kata as if they were actually facing opponents and reacting to an attack.

However, one can also do a slightly more realistic form of the kata, which involves one or more partners. These partners stand opposite the kata practitioner and take on the role of aggressor. They force the reaction by attacking, and they respond to counter-attacks.

For example, take the basic kata known as 'Seisan' in Isshin-Ryu. It begins with a left-side middle body block, then a right-side straight punch. Then the katateka steps forward with the right foot and punches left, then steps forward with the left foot and punches right. Then the karateka defends an imagined overhead strike with a double overhead block.

In this example, the person providing the 'backside' of the kata begins by facing the karateka performing the kata and punches right. This forces the kata performer to middle-body block left. Then the kata performer punches right, and the uke middle-body blocks left. And so on, culminating with the uke stepping forward and performing a double-overhead strike, forcing the kata performer to double-block overhead.

Every kata we do can be broken down in this manner. The way we practice it, the person performing the kata controls the uke's movements if they are not practiced as a team. For instance saying to them "Step left, punch mid-body right." "Defend my right kick with a low block left." And so on. The attacks don't have to be the same, but generally they are not tricky bunkai-wise; they are just straightforward movements designed to provoke the response according to the kata.

The goal of this is to put reason together with practice. This is the kata, this is why we do it this way. I find that it helps me to maintain my fight-line (embusan) and to understand why, for example, I would perform an uppercut and then a backfist in a given sequence. I find it is much easier for me to 'imagine' an opponent when I have done the backside of the kata and had it done for me as well. Now I 'see' what it is that is happening; it all makes much more sense to me. It's not just a ritual, it has a purpose.

I'm interested in your thoughts or comments. Do you do this in your dojo? Do you think it is useful if so? All comments welcome.
 

sfs982000

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Where I train we break our forms into segments and there are many times that we will work with a partner using clapper pads or striking shields to work on proper blocking and striking as it applies to that particular form. The clapper pads are an especially useful tool when it comes to proper block placement, there have been a number of times where I got clipped because my high blocks weren't high enough. :)
 

seasoned

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Although. at face value, the moves of any given kata may not fit into the perceived move being done, I feel there is a certain amount of value to gain while learning that kata. There will be plenty of time down the road to delve into more advanced bunkai. I know by some of your previous posts, that you already know this. Now to be more specific to your post, yes, I have done it this way and also find it easier once a kata is learned, to teach this way. Once there is a strong knowledge of any given kata, then, in the structure of an advanced class, more advanced bunkai that is inherent to than specific kata can be addressed.:asian:
 

Makalakumu

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I usually break down a couple of applications into their individual movements. Then, we spend the first part of class training those and making sure the basics are sound. Then we put them back into the kata and train them as a drill. At the end of class, we attempt to train the drill with some resistance and test our fundamentals. I find that this is the best method that I've experienced to train instinctual motion from kata.
 

dancingalone

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Yes, working through the embusen with partners using the oyo bunkai is useful, if only to help learn the kata itself better. The partners who are attacker learn the pattern that much better, even without considering the benefit to understanding what the movements mean.

I like to 'trick' my students. I take specific bunkai applications and I frequently have my class practice these combination movements in the air during warm ups and kihon practice. The lesson for the day doesn't even have to be connected to these... the idea is to make everyone familiar and fluent with the oyo interpretation even if the kata isn't necessarily the one they are working on at the moment. When I finally choose to teach the bunkai in full, there's always an 'aha!' moment from the students that I find rewarding.
 

K-man

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I look at kata in two ways.
One is a collection of techniques that can be taken individually, broken down, trained, interpreted varied etc. A toolbox if you like.
Then, the kata as a whole I take as a total exercise. I don't believe the kata contain any 'blocks', as protection against a fast attack is instinctive. The kata rely on 'predictive response' and one technique, if it fails to incapacitate the attacker, leads to the next and so on.
The complexity of the sequence depends on the skill level of the practitioner, beginning with basic explanation of striking and building up to a kata that is basically attacking vital points sequentially.
Years ago we used to think kata was useless because the explanation we were given was totally unrealistic. The criteria we use now is, if you wouldn't use any given technique, including the stance, in a street fight then your interpretation of the technique is incorrect.
Iain Abernethy has written extensively on the subject and his explanation makes more sense to me than most others. He has a series of articles on his website http://www.iainabernethy.co.uk/article/basics-bunkai-part-1 and has a number of good books on the subject. :asian:
 

MJS

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As most know, kata is a set pattern of movements that simulates defenses and strikes against an opponent. Bunkai is the interpretation of specific ways those moves could be used. In many dojos, students are encouraged to perform their kata as if they were actually facing opponents and reacting to an attack.

However, one can also do a slightly more realistic form of the kata, which involves one or more partners. These partners stand opposite the kata practitioner and take on the role of aggressor. They force the reaction by attacking, and they respond to counter-attacks.

For example, take the basic kata known as 'Seisan' in Isshin-Ryu. It begins with a left-side middle body block, then a right-side straight punch. Then the katateka steps forward with the right foot and punches left, then steps forward with the left foot and punches right. Then the karateka defends an imagined overhead strike with a double overhead block.

In this example, the person providing the 'backside' of the kata begins by facing the karateka performing the kata and punches right. This forces the kata performer to middle-body block left. Then the kata performer punches right, and the uke middle-body blocks left. And so on, culminating with the uke stepping forward and performing a double-overhead strike, forcing the kata performer to double-block overhead.

Every kata we do can be broken down in this manner. The way we practice it, the person performing the kata controls the uke's movements if they are not practiced as a team. For instance saying to them "Step left, punch mid-body right." "Defend my right kick with a low block left." And so on. The attacks don't have to be the same, but generally they are not tricky bunkai-wise; they are just straightforward movements designed to provoke the response according to the kata.

The goal of this is to put reason together with practice. This is the kata, this is why we do it this way. I find that it helps me to maintain my fight-line (embusan) and to understand why, for example, I would perform an uppercut and then a backfist in a given sequence. I find it is much easier for me to 'imagine' an opponent when I have done the backside of the kata and had it done for me as well. Now I 'see' what it is that is happening; it all makes much more sense to me. It's not just a ritual, it has a purpose.

I'm interested in your thoughts or comments. Do you do this in your dojo? Do you think it is useful if so? All comments welcome.

Do I do this? We used to do this alot in one of my old schools.

Do I think its useful? Absolutely!!! For the longest time, when going thru kata, I would often ask about a particular move, what were we doing, etc. Heres how the question and answer would go:

Me: I have a question about this move. What exactly are we doing here?

Teacher: Well, that move is done.........................................well, because thats the way its done in the kata.

Me: ?????????

LOL!! Sad but true....many people just dont know what they're doing in the kata, so they blindly run thru it. IMO, thats not learning anything, thats called just doing moves that you memorized.

Of course, there were some people who were able to provide me with answers and for that I was thankful. I was eventually able to figure things out on my own as well.

Quite a few years ago, I went to a George Dillman seminar. Dillman is one of those guys you either love or hate, but I wanted to form my own opinion of him, so I went. He did part of a kata that I was familiar with, and it was interesting, because the breakdowns were very different from what I was taught, meaning that his made alot more sense. See, even some of those teachers who did give me an 'answer' were still slightly flawed.

No, I'm not a student of Dillman, and I dont focus on the breakdowns of kata as much as others do, but I do feel its important to have at least 1 solid breakdown of whats going on.
 

AidanO

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The criteria we use now is, if you wouldn't use any given technique, including the stance, in a street fight then your interpretation of the technique is incorrect.

This.

I'm kind of Necroing this thread (it's first page, so I feel safe.)

I study a CMA, so the names are vastly different but we still have forms. My forms are massively different to very nearly everyone I've seen. Mainly because I've had real life experience and know that things aren't nearly as expansive or pretty as displayed in forms/katas.

Although since I frequently run into the 'people don't know what they are talking about' explanation of the form, I change it until it does work for its given purpose. That or find what it's really for. Sometimes a move looks totally unrelated, but you put it against another person and it comes into crystal clear clarity.
 

Supra Vijai

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Yeah training in Ninjutsu is vastly different from what I experienced in Karate years ago (although I didn't get too far into the art), with regards to kata our "kata" are a lot shorter for the most part with a lot of focus being on 3 moves or less (this does change with some of the ryu we study which involve complex techniques but I'd say it's fairly accurate for the most part). Even with something that short, our Sensei will often say that "this is easier 'felt' with a partner rather than in a circle" and we'll train with an opponent. As you progress through the ranks the expectations increase in terms of providing a realistic intent as uke, a realistic mindset as tori and realistic responses to strikes/blocks/evasions from both sides but it definitely adds an element of reality to the technique and makes it so much easier to understand! Especially if we are practicing things like sword work, picturing the opponent in armour goes a LONG way to help with targetting.
 

thepanjr

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In the dojo I go to...we work on the kata in segments. Most importantly focus on the basis of each technique and why it is done in that kata. There are many interpretations of the kata which is very fun. Rarely do we pracitce the kata as a pattern agianst each other.
 

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