Kata and Forms...?

[Milt G.]

Hello,

Would like to get an idea of the importance that is placed on kata and forms by the various practitioners, and systems, represented here.

On another forum the subject was brought up. Looking for more input.

Kata/Forms:

1) Necessary?
2) Very useful?
3) Somewhat useful?
4) Slightly useful?
5) Totally useless?

If so, or not, why???

Trying to find the "general" consensus.

Thanks, in advance for your assistance and input!

Milt G.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

This question seems to be asked a lot. It appears that opinions vary.

I would say 2) Very useful.

But that's just me.

 

[Milt G.]

This question seems to be asked a lot. It appears that opinions vary.

I would say 2) Very useful.

But that's just me.

Hello,
Thanks for your reply...
I default to #1, myself.

I think that kata, other then basics, is the single most helpful learning tool.

But that is just me.

I am sure that the "MMA-ers" will feel differently about it.

Thanks, again...
Milt G.

 

[Haze]

All depends on the art. I study Goju Ryu, kata is a necessary aspect of the art. Kata is the way technique is handed down from teacher to student. It is also the way one can build endurance and balance. Teaches breathing and when to be soft (flow with your invisible attacker) and when to be hard (focus all power against your invisible man) Teaches use of energy and weight by pulling, pushing, sinking, rising, spiraling/turning

#1 for me,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,necessary,,,,,,,,,,,in my art.

 

[Milt G.]

All depends on the art. I study Goju Ryu, kata is a necessary aspect of the art. Kata is the way technique is handed down from teacher to student. It is also the way one can build endurance and balance. Teaches breathing and when to be soft (flow with your invisible attacker) and when to be hard (focus all power against your invisible man) Teaches use of energy and weight by pulling, pushing, sinking, rising, spiraling/turning

#1 for me,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,necessary,,,,,,,,,,,in my art.

Hello,
I fully agree.

Thanks for your reply!
Milt G.

 

[matt.m]

I think it is important in Judo. Really Ju No Kata and Gatame No Kata are essential for practice. Kata, at least designed for Judo is very practical.

 

[Grenadier]

Kata is one of the best ways to execute the fundamental techniques that you have learned over the years. Furthermore, with repeated practice, the techniques should be getting better.

The better someone's technique is, the better they're going to be at *all* aspects of Karate, including kumite.

As someone gets better in kumite, his techniques will continue to get better, which will then better his kata.

To me, the kata and kumite are both tied to the fundamental techniques, and that improving one area will help the other, through the bettering of one's fundamentals.

For example, someone who practices kata Gojushiho Dai, is going to develop a better sense of balance, along with increased leg strength, from manuvering in short cat stance for much of the time. With this increase in strength and balance, this can make him a better fighter in the kumite aspect.

Each kata has something to offer, and to me, are excellent tools to use in conjunction with your other tools.

 

[Andrew Green]

1) Necessary?
2) Very useful?
3) Somewhat useful?
4) Slightly useful?
5) Totally useless?

All of the above. Just depends on what you want to get out of your training.

 

[Tez3]

Hello,
Thanks for your reply...
I default to #1, myself.

I think that kata, other then basics, is the single most helpful learning tool.

But that is just me.

I am sure that the "MMA-ers" will feel differently about it.

Thanks, again...
Milt G.

Why drag 'MMAers' into it? As a matter of fact this one feels kata is hugely inportant so does this quite a few MMA fighters I know the most recent being Neil Grove (UFC) who still trains karate and completed the 30 man kumite for his grading. Iain Abernethy a leading world proponent of kata Bunkai is a great fan of MMA and teaches moves from kata to MMA fighters. Please don't turn this into another flogging a dead horse MMA v TMA thread.

 

[Milt G.]

Why drag 'MMAers' into it? As a matter of fact this one feels kata is hugely inportant so does this quite a few MMA fighters I know the most recent being Neil Grove (UFC) who still trains karate and completed the 30 man kumite for his grading. Iain Abernethy a leading world proponent of kata Bunkai is a great fan of MMA and teaches moves from kata to MMA fighters. Please don't turn this into another flogging a dead horse MMA v TMA thread.

Hello,
No intent to drag any specific group into anything. Not what I am about.

I mentioned the "MMA" as that is the latest "system", it seems.
I could have mentioned the JKD-ers, Boxers, Wrestlers and many of the Filipino arts as well. Most do not utilize traditional kata much, if at all.

I think it is great that you, and others you know utilize the traditional kata. You are in the minority for those types of arts, overall, though.

I applaud your, and anyone's use of kata as a training tool!

Thank you for your reply.
Milt G.

 

[pgsmith]

Well, since this is the Japanese Martial Arts forum, and most Japanese martial arts are transmitted through the use of kata, I think that your response is going to be overwhelmingly in favor of kata. I practice Japanese sword arts, and all of the koryu (classic) arts utilize kata as their main form of transmission.

 

[Tez3]

Well, since this is the Japanese Martial Arts forum, and most Japanese martial arts are transmitted through the use of kata, I think that your response is going to be overwhelmingly in favor of kata. I practice Japanese sword arts, and all of the koryu (classic) arts utilize kata as their main form of transmission.

I think one post in the general section would have been sufficient to garner enough replies, as the poster above points out, in this section it's a given that we see the point of kata!

 

[rrowell]

Kata is critical. It acts as a skeleton to build your understanding. Kata is a distillation of thinking, a platform to expand from.

A couple of articles you may be interested in:

http://budotheory.ca/articles/64-kata-the-model-and-the-shape

http://budotheory.ca/articles/98-exploring-kata-horizons

http://budotheory.ca/compare-kata

I guess you now know where I stand on the subject.

 

[K-man]

Kata is critical. It acts as a skeleton to build your understanding. Kata is a distillation of thinking, a platform to expand from.

A couple of articles you may be interested in:

http://budotheory.ca/articles/64-kata-the-model-and-the-shape

http://budotheory.ca/articles/98-exploring-kata-horizons

http://budotheory.ca/compare-kata

I guess you now know where I stand on the subject.

Me too! Great articles. :asian:

 

[ATACX GYM]

I think that kata are deeply misunderstood on too many levels and brings GROWING BENEFITS as you practice and age.It is a brilliant collection of movements which preserve the physical techniques of an art,is literally a much overlooked form of yoga,becomes even more beautiful and more refined if you combine a taste for and appreciation of unbounded beauty,unbounded appreciation of form function and knowledge (the reasons for and circumstances surrounding the creation of a kata),and utterly practical functional real world fighting ability.

Shadowboxing is fast kata. Shadow grappling is ground kata.Flow drills,isolated drills,etc. are sports specific,result oriented kata.Fighting is spontaneous combat kata.Kata is a wonderful tool that we must cherish and preserve imho.I do kata all the time.Try shadowstriking with weapons and empty handed nonstop covering every range of primary combat including rescue and escape.Do that for 3 ten minute rounds.Preface that by doing whatever favorite kata you wish and tack on that same kata at the end.Now tell me that it DIDN'T help you.Yeah,I thought it did.Lol.

Yes,as you prbably know already...kata are very valuable training tools and are as versatile and effective as the martial artist with the requisite refinement, creativity,understanding,faith will and knowledge can fashion them to be.

 

[chinto]

Hello,

Would like to get an idea of the importance that is placed on kata and forms by the various practitioners, and systems, represented here.

On another forum the subject was brought up. Looking for more input.

Kata/Forms:

1) Necessary?
2) Very useful?
3) Somewhat useful?
4) Slightly useful?
5) Totally useless?

If so, or not, why???

Trying to find the "general" consensus.

Thanks, in advance for your assistance and input!

Milt G.

Absolutely NECESSARY! Kata is where the system is passed down. the doctrine and tactics, foot work, and other techniques are passed down !!
Does this mean that kata is the only tool? NO! but it does mean that its the most important. With out the Katas you have no system. any one can put together a few techniques on their own, but that is not a system.. kata is how the system was formalized and is passed down to the next generation.

 

[tayl0124]

I believe that Kata is absolutely necessary!! I think in it's simplest form it teaches you how to string your basics together. Imagine only knowing basics and trying to defend yourself. Yes you will be able to block and punch, but kata teaches you movement, how to shift your weight, and to use your hips to generate power. Another benefit not discussed it to keep you and other students moving in a direction. How many systems would have survived this long if you only had basics??

 

[lma]

A big fat 1


Its so much more than punching the air. Im writing a blog on this just now.

I have always learned from kata to think outside the box. A little contraversal considering its a set pastern . Its down to the bunkai its good to get taught the meaning of the moves and so on but its even better to learn from the moves them selves. For a black belt test I had to come up with 3 different bunkais for Heian Nidan.

It teaches a whole lot of things but this is what makes it so essential for ME

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Kata/Forms:

1) Necessary?
2) Very useful?
3) Somewhat useful?
4) Slightly useful?
5) Totally useless?

As long as the correct Bunkai is know and trained, I would say #2 very useful. I don't say 'necessary' since an art can be successfully trained without the use of kata.

 

[Cyriacus]

I wouldnt Grade it on Usefullness, but rather, Necessity. Or Lack, thereof.

One could debate For or Against Kata, but ultimately, the Combinations and Block>Counters, and everything else Kata Teach, can be learnt Seperately.