Karateka Sound Off!

[TimoS]

Shorin ryu Seibukan / Jinbukan kobudo.

Before I switched to Seibukan, I was in Shorinji ryu Renshinkan and an off-shoot from that. I guess, in retrospect, that even the time I was officially in Renshinkan was more or less an off-shoot from it

 

[dancingalone]

Shorin ryu Seibukan / Jinbukan kobudo.

Before I switched to Seibukan, I was in Shorinji ryu Renshinkan and an off-shoot from that. I guess, in retrospect, that even the time I was officially in Renshinkan was more or less an off-shoot from it

Timo, are there any meaningful technical differences between the various Shorin-ryu groups? I studied Matsubayashi for a while when I was younger and I've noticed some kata can be different, like Ananku.

 

[dancingalone]

Not that this is statistically significant in any way, but this is the breakdown thus far. I only counted the current style given rather than include any former studies. Apparently Goju-ryu is the evil empire of the karate forum.

Karate styles of MT respondents

4 Goju-ryu
2 Shorin-ryu
1 Shito-ryu
1 Seido
1 Isshinryu
1 American Kenpo
1 Tang Soo Do
1 Taekwondo
1 American karate
1 Shotokan
1 Ashihara

 

[TimoS]

Timo, are there any meaningful technical differences between the various Shorin-ryu groups?

Perhaps I'm not the most qualified person to answer that, as I've been practising only Kyan line Shorin(ji) There aren't other lineages present in Finland, so I cannot really compare. I know in Seibukan we have our own "peculiarities" in techniques, like 3/4 turn of the fist while punching and from what I've understood, our basic stance is also lower and wider than in other Shorin schools. Also, we use the shikodachi-zenkutsudachi turn to generate power, which to my understanding is sort of a "trademark" of Zenryo Shimabukuro, i.e. if some style uses it, it is very likely they've trained with Zenryo (or Zenpo) Shimabukuro, whether they admit it or not (and yes, there are those). I guess the major differences are in kata. Itosu/Chibana line Shorin schools often have the Sho and Dai versions of kata, e.g. Kusanku Sho and Kusanku Dai, whereas we have only one version, the exception being Passai, where we have Passai and Passai Guwa.

I studied Matsubayashi for a while when I was younger and I've noticed some kata can be different, like Ananku.

The Matsubayashi Ananku is Nagamine's own creation, much like the Ananku we practise is Kyan's creation.

 

[dancingalone]

A few points: American Karate has an enormous following here in Texas. It is an external style--it doesn't involve any meditation, etc., and the influence of Asian philosophies is minimal. In terms of the way it "looks," it is heavily influenced by Shotokan and TaeKwonDo. Stances are low and wide. Only English is used (except for the word "uke", and some Japanese terms for various throws and takedowns, but we aren't required to use the Japanese). Instructors are called Ms. or Mr., not Sensei or Master; adult students are called Ms. or Mr. as well. Nobody is expected to bow lower than anyone else. Our sparring is sport point (which in Texas means hitting pretty damn hard, I might add), and we spar in a sideways fighting stance, kicking primarily with the front leg (Bill Wallace is a heavy influence.)

Stacy,

What are the empty hand and weapons forms you learned up to shodan (or beyond if you happen to know what are the requirements)? How do you learn how to spar? Are there any formal kumite sets to practice or did you just wing it?

 

[Omar B]

What Blade96 posted is essentially accurate. I'm a supporter, obviously.

A few points: American Karate has an enormous following here in Texas. It is an external style--it doesn't involve any meditation, etc., and the influence of Asian philosophies is minimal. In terms of the way it "looks," it is heavily influenced by Shotokan and TaeKwonDo. Stances are low and wide. Only English is used (except for the word "uke", and some Japanese terms for various throws and takedowns, but we aren't required to use the Japanese). Instructors are called Ms. or Mr., not Sensei or Master; adult students are called Ms. or Mr. as well. Nobody is expected to bow lower than anyone else. Our sparring is sport point (which in Texas means hitting pretty damn hard, I might add), and we spar in a sideways fighting stance, kicking primarily with the front leg (Bill Wallace is a heavy influence.)

Cool. The link I was provided before referenced Ed Parker but you say American Karate is influenced by Shotokan and TKD, so am I to assume that the Wiki article mentioning SGM Parker is wrong and there is no Kenpo in your system? Tell em about the Kata, self defence sets, ranking system if you could.

 

[rlp271]

I thought there were more Isshinryu people than that? I think you may have counted me as TKD, but that was just what I did as a university student. I was still and am still heavily involved in Isshinryu. I have also just begun Kyokushin.

 

[dancingalone]

I thought there were more Isshinryu people than that? I think you may have counted me as TKD, but that was just what I did as a university student. I was still and am still heavily involved in Isshinryu. I have also just begun Kyokushin.

Which do you consider your primary style? Isshinryu?

 

[Laus]

First style: Goju Ryu
Current style: Kyokushin. Also practicing Aikido.

Why the change? No goju in this city.

 

[Stac3y]

Stacy,

What are the empty hand and weapons forms you learned up to shodan (or beyond if you happen to know what are the requirements)? How do you learn how to spar? Are there any formal kumite sets to practice or did you just wing it?

We don't learn weapons forms until brown belt, at which point we either create our own or borrow from other systems. For example, my fan katas are ones I came up with myself; another candidate does a traditional Okinawan bo kata.

In order, our curriculum katas are:

H-Form 1
H-Form 2
H-Form 3
H-Form 4
To San
Hein 4
Hwa Rang
Tekkie 1
Chung Mu
Bassai Dai (this is optional for 1st degree black; mandatory for 2nd degree)

We are also required to create both an empty hand form and a weapon or musical (ugh) form. During our black belt test, we are required to do 10 move impromptu katas with 5 weapons (arnis, bo, nunchaku, sai, and tonfa.) We may be called upon to do all 5, or fewer.

We learn techniques and do sparring drills (partnered and non-partnered). No traditional kumite sets. We rarely do one steps. Sparring is free sparring from the start, and contact is used from the start. Because of this, only black and brown belts spar with yellow belt adults until they start to get the hang of it. White belt adults do sparring drills only.

We learn approximately 40 classroom self defense sequences; most of these have to be learned moving in both directions. These include empty hand and gun, knife, and club defenses. Some of these techniques are taken from Aikido.

At brown belt level, we learn impromptu self defense, which involves throws and takedowns. There are 30 single attacker attacks, 10 double attacker attacks, and 10 eyes closed single attacker attacks (defender has eyes closed, not attacker, of course) on the black belt test; we must do two different defenses for each. Each defense must involve a takedown or throw.

 

[Stac3y]

Cool. The link I was provided before referenced Ed Parker but you say American Karate is influenced by Shotokan and TKD, so am I to assume that the Wiki article mentioning SGM Parker is wrong and there is no Kenpo in your system? Tell em about the Kata, self defence sets, ranking system if you could.

Parker is admired, and is considered an influence, but American Karate is not Kenpo. There may be some Kenpo in there somewhere (and there are some similarities in mindset, ala the idea of modifying techniques to fit individual strengths), but I wouldn't be able to tell you exactly where.

 

[dancingalone]

In order, our curriculum katas are:

H-Form 1
H-Form 2
H-Form 3
H-Form 4
To San
Hein 4
Hwa Rang
Tekkie 1
Chung Mu
Bassai Dai (this is optional for 1st degree black; mandatory for 2nd degree)

We are also required to create both an empty hand form and a weapon or musical (ugh) form. During our black belt test, we are required to do 10 move impromptu katas with 5 weapons (arnis, bo, nunchaku, sai, and tonfa.) We may be called upon to do all 5, or fewer.

We learn techniques and do sparring drills (partnered and non-partnered). No traditional kumite sets. We rarely do one steps. Sparring is free sparring from the start, and contact is used from the start. Because of this, only black and brown belts spar with yellow belt adults until they start to get the hang of it. White belt adults do sparring drills only.

We learn approximately 40 classroom self defense sequences; most of these have to be learned moving in both directions. These include empty hand and gun, knife, and club defenses. Some of these techniques are taken from Aikido.

At brown belt level, we learn impromptu self defense, which involves throws and takedowns. There are 30 single attacker attacks, 10 double attacker attacks, and 10 eyes closed single attacker attacks (defender has eyes closed, not attacker, of course) on the black belt test; we must do two different defenses for each. Each defense must involve a takedown or throw.

I remember this list of forms. There used to be someone else who was in your org that posted here. She used to pop in from time to time.

 

[Cirdan]

Wado Ryu - I consider this to be my core art.
Ju Jutsu - My 2nd art tho I condider it just a slightly different expression of the same principles.

Arts I get the occational lesson in:
Goshindo
Tai Chi
Kali

Katori Shinto Ryu - studied it briefly.

 

[scottie]

Parker is admired, and is considered an influence, but American Karate is not Kenpo. There may be some Kenpo in there somewhere (and there are some similarities in mindset, ala the idea of modifying techniques to fit individual strengths), but I wouldn't be able to tell you exactly where.

1. Isshinryu is my Heart.

2. I do dabble American Karate (with a heavy Goju Influence), I think the phrase "American" was coined because is has became what America is. A mix of everything. That's what makes our country strong, that is what makes American Karate strong. Most traditionalist don't like it. I am a traditionalist and there parts that i don't like about it. but i respect their fighting skills. thats what most of it is all about.

 

[dancingalone]

So the tally is now this. Those isshinryu loserz are catching up.

4 Goju-ryu
3 Isshin-ryu
2 Shorin-ryu
1 Shito-ryu
1 Seido
1 American Kenpo
1 Tang Soo Do
1 American karate
1 Shotokan
1 Ashihara
1 Kyokushin
1 Wado-ryu

 

[Blade96]

So the tally is now this. Those isshinryu loserz are catching up.

4 Goju-ryu
3 Isshin-ryu
2 Shorin-ryu
1 Shito-ryu
1 Seido
1 American Kenpo
1 Tang Soo Do
1 American karate
1 Shotokan
1 Ashihara
1 Kyokushin
1 Wado-ryu

Eeek.

3 pages and im the only shotokanka.

 

[Omar B]

I'm pretty sure Jim777 is also Seido, he attends the Honbu in Manhattan. He has not posted yet though.

 

[dancingalone]

Eeek.

3 pages and im the only shotokanka.

I think Grenadier is also Shotokan. Maybe most Shotokan people are too busy training to waste time on MT.

 

[Cirdan]

Hey there are 2 Wadokas, can`t you Goju people even count?
You didn`t count Tez. Me lonely :wah:

 

[dancingalone]

Hey there are 2 Wadokas, can`t you Goju people even count?
You didn`t count Tez. Me lonely :wah:

Goju people can't count. We all have brain damage thanks to holding our breath too much during Sanchin. %-}

No intended slight. I just counted Tez as TSD because she currently trains in it at her club. I understand she teaches it too although she has a personal preference for Wado.

I basically didn't want to get into counting fractions for people who practice multiple styles, so it's one or the other. No biggie either way. I'll change her tally to Wado in the next version if you both like.