Karate vs TKD

[CB Jones]

Also, you can tell his guard is from a style that doesn't include head punches.

I’m pretty sure that is incorrect. I believe the style he comes from allows head punches.

Just because someone has their hands down in sparring matches doesn’t mean their style doesn’t allow head contact.

 

[FriedRice]

Wait.....y’all wash belts??? Lol

This comment just tells me that you don't train as hard as we do and/or you're that guy who I need to sneak in a hand sanitizer shot after shaking hands with. I kid, I kid...

 

[FriedRice]

Eventually the dogmatic rules that boxing brought with it on its way in to mma will be gotten over as people realise that there is more than one way to fight.

MMA started out as a free for all and got destroyed by BJJ. Then Muay Thai was brought into the mix + BJJ to dominate year 5-15 (approx). And for the past 10+ years, it's been dominantly Boxing + Wrestling with BJJ & MT dropping down to secondary arts.

These many other ways of fighting had their chances in years 1-5 (esp. year 1) when it was potluck, bullshido, anything goes almost; where you can write down as many Black Belt degrees and fake & real fight experience as you wanted on the registration and Bruce Buffer woulda announced it.

So what happened to all these other ways of fighting? They've laying low for the past 25 years, just waiting for the right moment to strike and bring home all the $$$ and glory to their style?

 

[skribs]

I saw so little use of the hands that it was difficult to tell who was the Shotokan person. It was a little sloppy on both sides. The first video with the gentleman in black, he has good, fast kicks and his defensive posture is very good. I assume sparring without gear was part of the reason for the lack of contact.

I see that when they're further away their hands are down, but their hands come up as they go closer. The competition seems to focus on kicks, so they're using range more than their guard to defend the attacks. It's better to not get hit than it is to get your arm broken by a kick. While their level of contact doesn't break bones, I've blocked one or two kicks that I regret.

In the Hapkido I train (entirely different style) we are told to keep our hands lower than a normal fighting stance. It looks kind of like the Wing Chun guard. The lead hand is somewhere between the solarplexus and shoulder, the rear hand betwen solarplexus and belly button. But that's because in a real fight, people won't just go for your head. They'll go for your groin, too.

 

[skribs]

MMA started out as a free for all and got destroyed by BJJ. Then Muay Thai was brought into the mix + BJJ to dominate year 5-15 (approx). And for the past 10+ years, it's been dominantly Boxing + Wrestling with BJJ & MT dropping down to secondary arts.

These many other ways of fighting had their chances in years 1-5 (esp. year 1) when it was potluck, bullshido, anything goes almost; where you can write down as many Black Belt degrees and fake & real fight experience as you wanted on the registration and Bruce Buffer woulda announced it.

So what happened to all these other ways of fighting? They've laying low for the past 25 years, just waiting for the right moment to strike and bring home all the $$$ and glory to their style?

How is it that boxing and wrestling have taken over? It seems to me that MT + BJJ is more suited for those competitions.

 

[FriedRice]

How is it that boxing and wrestling have taken over? It seems to me that MT + BJJ is more suited for those competitions.

It sounds good on paper, but throwing hands is just dominant right now. And nothing beats Boxing for that. Lots of boxing and simple kicks. Even in Thailand, the Thais are bringing in Western Boxing because the Euros are kicking some *** with their hands in MT, even in Thailand....and esp. in K-1.

The BJJ is still there, but it's a lot more Wrestling training to get it to the ground and/or preventing to go to the round.

 

[CB Jones]

In the Hapkido I train (entirely different style) we are told to keep our hands lower than a normal fighting stance.

My son keeps his hands kinda in this position when fighting

 

[hoshin1600]

It's point sparring. So I will comment on it as such.
White appears to be the shotokan guy. His movements are not crisp and lack focus. When he punches it should be a full extention and a full retraction like a piston, nice and straight. He's also not grounded well when striking. His kicks are sloppy as well, again no retraction.
Black seems to be something like TKD. Sorry Azlux but your kicks are very slappy, patty cake without power or focus.
I am also not a big fan of the whole bunny rabbit bouncing thing, but I know it's very common.
EDIT: watching it again, using Okinawan competitive standards neither side scored any points. Maybe white might have squeaked a left hand in when he switched stances.

 

[Buka]

My son keeps his hands kinda in this position when fighting
View attachment 21745

That's exactly how I held my hands in karate tournament competition. It works really well, as I'm sure he agrees.

In the ring I help my hands in various boxing stances. Depending on the opponent. I think everyone should have various go to stances for competition, as well as in life situations in general.

 

[CB Jones]

That's exactly how I held my hands in karate tournament competition. It works really well, as I'm sure he agrees.
.

Buka tested, Buka approved.

 

[Mitlov]

I’m pretty sure that is incorrect. I believe the style he comes from allows head punches.

Just because someone has their hands down in sparring matches doesn’t mean their style doesn’t allow head contact.

Fair enough. The style of TKD I did in college used a similar low guard to what he's doing and we used Olympic sparring rules, so I had just connected those dots. Definitely wasn't meant as style bashing or anything.

 

[DaveB]

I think we are there already. Within competitive MMA, there are vastly different successful styles of fighting already happening.

What ways to fight are not already there that would be attained by shucking said 'dogmatic rules'?

It's less about what is to be added and more what is to be recognised.

Hanzou's criticism was routed in a lack of appreciation for fighting styles that weaponise distance. A high guard is not important if your opponent is too far away to hit you, yet the lack of a guard is often still a point of criticism.

As a wider range of fighting methods become more commonly understood there will be less criticism based on a boxing perspective.

 

[Mitlov]

It's less about what is to be added and more what is to be recognised.

Hanzou's criticism was routed in a lack of appreciation for fighting styles that weaponise distance. A high guard is not important if your opponent is too far away to hit you, yet the lack of a guard is often still a point of criticism.

As a wider range of fighting methods become more commonly understood there will be less criticism based on a boxing perspective.

Also the classic boxing guard works best when both parties have bulky boxing gloves. With smaller MMA gloves, low guards (like the Shotokan guy in this video, not so much the TKD guy) have been used even in full contact MMA, by folks like Chuck Liddell and Lyoto Machida.

 

[Martial D]

It's less about what is to be added and more what is to be recognised.

Hanzou's criticism was routed in a lack of appreciation for fighting styles that weaponise distance. A high guard is not important if your opponent is too far away to hit you, yet the lack of a guard is often still a point of criticism.

As a wider range of fighting methods become more commonly understood there will be less criticism based on a boxing perspective.

There are some fighters that successfully utilize mostly kicks and keep their hands low and barely punch.

Elias Theodorou is one example off the top of my head.

 

[Hanzou]

It sounds good on paper, but throwing hands is just dominant right now. And nothing beats Boxing for that. Lots of boxing and simple kicks. Even in Thailand, the Thais are bringing in Western Boxing because the Euros are kicking some *** with their hands in MT, even in Thailand....and esp. in K-1.

The BJJ is still there, but it's a lot more Wrestling training to get it to the ground and/or preventing to go to the round.

Actually what happened is that a lot of Bjj schools have incorporated wrestling and sombo into their curriculums to remain competitive and then transplanted that to MMA gyms. The stuff they're doing now is pretty far beyond the original Gracie stuff from the original UFC.

 

[Hanzou]

I don't think they are supposed to be putting in power as it's clearly a friendly glove free sparring session.

Meh. Nothing wrong with a little power when sparring friendly.

Anyway, I didn't mean to come off so harsh. I've simply never been a fan of tippity-tappity rabbit fighting.

 

[Hanzou]

translation,,,, its not mma, so everything they do is therefore rubbish

I find that comment amusing considering that I don't practice MMA.

 

[jobo]

I find that comment amusing considering that I don't practice MMA.

I find it amusing that your such a cheer leader for mma, but dont even do it

 

[CB Jones]

Fair enough. The style of TKD I did in college used a similar low guard to what he's doing and we used Olympic sparring rules, so I had just connected those dots. Definitely wasn't meant as style bashing or anything.

Didn't take it as style bashing. Was just clarifying a couple points.

 

[drop bear]

How is it that boxing and wrestling have taken over? It seems to me that MT + BJJ is more suited for those competitions.

In a simple way.
Boxing has better takedown defence and wrestling has better striking defence.