Karate, Kung Fu, and MMA dont mix

CuongNhuka

Senior Master
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
2,596
Reaction score
31
Location
NE
This is a thread from an MMA forum, I think you'll find that MMA fighters over here are sarky but not arrogant and many recommend TMAs. I can provide translations if anyone needs them lol!

I didn't say all MMA fighters are like that. I think it's just Americans. Then again, alot of "Sport Karate" guys are like that also. I think it's somthing in the water... who knows. However, there is a reason I'm half thinking that if this idiotic "MMA Vs. TMA" crap doesn't cool down in the next couple of years I might be tempted to move to Europe.
I could open the first Cuong Nhu school in England!
 

Sukerkin

Have the courage to speak softly
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Sep 15, 2006
Messages
15,318
Reaction score
480
Location
Staffordshire, England
You'd be more than welcome, my friend, I'm sure :tup:.
 

CuongNhuka

Senior Master
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
2,596
Reaction score
31
Location
NE
You'd be more than welcome, my friend, I'm sure :tup:.

Is that an offer for a room while I try to find a flap? LOL, who knows if I move. For all I know, the fad will be over by this time next year. But, what do I know?
 

Last Fearner

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
712
Reaction score
17
Hello, REAL fighting? Have you seen any of the martial arts teach: real fighting? Real defense against real fighting? Anything goes? Non-stop action till someone quits or gets beating up.
Answer: Yes!
That is what the Martial Art is, although in many schools today, it is more of a progressive process. It is not the "Martial Art" that is lacking, it is some "Black Belt" / school owners lack of training as an instructor. Some schools throw students into the hard-core mix from the start, but there is a reason those schools don't attract many students, maintain students, and are often out of business in a short time. People seek what they feel they need, and society dictates that need.

Have you ever seen a Kata person fight like a Kata in a REAL fight?
Who says Kata = fight? Pilots fly planes. They also do a check of their instrument panels before take-off. They move their ailerons, rudders and elevators up and down several times to ensure they work. They don't spend an entire flight checking their instrument panel like a pre-flight check, nor do they constantly move the ailerons, rudder and elevator during a flight. However, they don't fly without the use of those instruments, and other devices. A Kata/Hyung is a simulation of a fight with some differences for training purposes. It does not match the performance of a fight exactly, but aspects of it are used throughout a fight when appropriate.

Besides honing a variety of skills (seen and unseen), Kata is one of the best ways to prepare the mind for combat when you don't have a partner present.... if you have the in-depth understanding of what your supposed to be doing mentally during the kata. These things can not be seen by observers, and this is why Kata are so often misunderstood, and dismissed as useless. It is like pressing the keys of a computer when it is turned off and determining that the computer is useless as a means of communication.

One day people will learn Kata is a training tool ....but has nothing to do with REAL fighting skills.
Push-ups are a training tool - - do they have anything to do with a real fight? Using a "gripper" to increase grip strength is a training tool - - does that have anything to do with a real fight? In the Army, we used "dummy grenades" as training tools - - do they have anything to do with real combat. Answer: Yes! They all improve skills that are used in combat.

Your skills' are develop faster and better when you can practice against a real partner (over and over) till each technique becomes a part of you (hundreds/thousands of times).
Excellent point, but how many people have a partner 24/7 to repeat the techniques thousands of times. Reality is that you can duplicate the motions, repeat them hundreds of thousands of times, and ingrain the movements as a reflex without a partner, then adapt to real physical contact when you have a partner. In the Army, we didn't throw the live grenades every day, but we got very accurate at throwing the dummies while keeping ourselves concealed from enemy fire. All you have to do is exchange the dummy for a live grenade, and place an enemy at the receiving end of the throw.

MMA = ever see them doing Kata's ? Boxers? , Muay thai? Football players,baseball,basket ball? and so on? Golfers? doing Kata's'
Answer: Yes! Although they don't call them Kata, it is the same basic principle. Ever see a golfer step back from the ball and swing at the top of the blades of grass without actually hitting the ball. There is a mental and physical reason for that practice. Ever see a golfer on a driving range, or throw a bucket of balls around a green and practice chip shots all day, or hitting the cup on a putting green. These parts are not a real round of golf, but they are elements of the game - - skills needed to do well.

Ever see a basket ball team run drills of passing and shooting. The same pass, and the same lay-up over and over. Not a full game, but useful nonetheless. Football players run the tires, run in place with their knees coming up high then hit the dirt and back up again. Jump and roll to the left, then up and do it to the right. All kata like movements used in an actual game, but not in the same fashion as used in practice.

Most police self-defense training do not have Kata's, YET they are very effective self-defense programs.
This one I got a chuckle out of. Myself (and others like me) are the ones that police and LEO come to for training. The PPCT and other such programs taught at academies were created by Martial Artist who use forms in their training. Most LEOs don't have the time to dedicate to full training, and their "Martial Art" skills are typically less than that of the Martial Artists they get their training from.

So, to tell a Martial Art master that his forms are useless and have nothing to do with a fight because police don't use them is a little amusing to me. Perhaps if they used forms more, they might do better in their actual application (on the other hand, remember that forms teach more about striking than the typical escalation/de-escalation, disarming, subduing, and handcuffing that police tend to do - - speaking from the perspective of a former LEO and current trainer of those in that profession).

AS long as there are rules: MMA"S and all other martial arts are restricted in REAL fighting. FOR THE STREETS- ANYTHING GOES! NO RULES!
NO RULES!?! Gee....who'd-a ever thought that we could fight with no rules? I've heard this argument so many times, its amazing it is still floating around out there. What do you think real Martial Artists train to fight for. My tournament rules and classroom control is not for the street. My street-fighting training has no rules, and I know the difference. Why do people keep thinking that muggers, thieves, gang bangers, and street-fighters don't follow any rules, but us Martial Artists do? Do you think that we are like the British in 1776 - Wearing red and marching in a straight line into battle while the enemy wears dark colors and hides behind the rocks and the trees? (no offense to our British friends :))

Most of the negative talk I hear about any other "style" of Martial Art, or the training methods they use (such as forms) comes from ignorance of the subject (a lack of full understanding of that particular art or skill).

This is my humble opinion!
CM D.J. Eisenhart
 

Sukerkin

Have the courage to speak softly
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Sep 15, 2006
Messages
15,318
Reaction score
480
Location
Staffordshire, England
This is a complete left turn on the OP and I only pop it in here as it's an area of interest to me.

There are a couple of misconceptions about the 'intelligence' of the way we used to fight wars a couple of centuries back. Marching in line to firing range was the best to way to get the maximum firepower you could onto the target, especially considering the inaccuracy of un-rifled musketry.

The wearing of red uniforms also has a sensible rationale (and, no, it's not so the blood didn't show :D). Oddly, for such an intense colour, red actually makes it very difficult for an enemy to count your numbers as a unit tends to become just a mass of scarlet at range - on of those 'Strange but true' moments.

I wont allow myself to get sidetracked into the history of the War of Independance as not only does it not belong here but I tend to start frothing at the mouth with indignation at the myth-mangling (is there no end to the subjects that cause me to do that?) :eek: :lol:.

For those interested in the period, this looks like it could be a good book on the subject - does anyone have it to give a personal review before I buy it?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/American-Independence-1774-1783-Essential-Histories/dp/1841763438
 

CuongNhuka

Senior Master
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
2,596
Reaction score
31
Location
NE
This is a complete left turn on the OP and I only pop it in here as it's an area of interest to me.

There are a couple of misconceptions about the 'intelligence' of the way we used to fight wars a couple of centuries back. Marching in line to firing range was the best to way to get the maximum firepower you could onto the target, especially considering the inaccuracy of un-rifled musketry.

The wearing of red uniforms also has a sensible rationale (and, no, it's not so the blood didn't show :D). Oddly, for such an intense colour, red actually makes it very difficult for an enemy to count your numbers as a unit tends to become just a mass of scarlet at range - on of those 'Strange but true' moments.

I wont allow myself to get sidetracked into the history of the War of Independance as not only does it not belong here but I tend to start frothing at the mouth with indignation at the myth-mangling (is there no end to the subjects that cause me to do that?) :eek: :lol:.

For those interested in the period, this looks like it could be a good book on the subject - does anyone have it to give a personal review before I buy it?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/American-Independence-1774-1783-Essential-Histories/dp/1841763438

Your just mad cause we won the war, you limey Brit! Just kidding!
 

Sukerkin

Have the courage to speak softly
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Sep 15, 2006
Messages
15,318
Reaction score
480
Location
Staffordshire, England
ROFL! I'm assuming that everyone knows why we're referred to as Limey's?

I don't want to de-rail the thread so I may well open a discourse on this in the War College forum ... just not tonight as I'm far too exhausted for rational discourse on historical matters (all together now "Ah, poor Sukerkin, all worn out!" :D).
 

CuongNhuka

Senior Master
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
2,596
Reaction score
31
Location
NE
I thought it was because you had a sour disposition. LOL. I kid, I kid. Don't forget, I am mostly British and Scottish.
 
Top