Karate is kata, kata is karate

Fungus

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Having "fantasies" or the ability to imagine a possible actual future, seems like a key also in a fighting as your optimal actions are ideally chosen based on your expectations of your opponents move. So the better imagination, the better fighter?
 

Gerry Seymour

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Having "fantasies" or the ability to imagine a possible actual future, seems like a key also in a fighting as your optimal actions are ideally chosen based on your expectations of your opponents move. So the better imagination, the better fighter?
A good imagination can certainly help when doing solo work. When shadow-boxing (or any equivalent), it's most useful if you're working against an imaginary opponent who moves like opponents (or even a specific opponent) do. If you can't imagine what the movement of an opponent might be without having them there, you're just moving around the air.
 

silent killer

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Having "fantasies" or the ability to imagine a possible actual future, seems like a key also in a fighting as your optimal actions are ideally chosen based on your expectations of your opponents move. So the better imagination, the better fighter?
emmmm.... no reality is better like sparring
why play a play station game in your head?
 

JowGaWolf

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personally i have always preferred sparring & partner training, kata alone is boring
If it's boning, then you probably aren't focusing on the correct things or you have difficulty in focusing on things in general. You should be able to enjoy it more doing it by yourself because you can change the pace at which you do it.
 

JowGaWolf

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Kata is limited only by your imagination.
Kata is limited by the purpose in which one uses it. If someone is going to just be doing it for the sake of doing it, then it's going to be boring really fast. If someone is doing kata with a specific purpose in mind, then they should be able to get a good work out based on that purpose.

Kids will often do kung fu forms without purpose and that often made it very easy for them to do and they would get bored really quick. But If I tell them to focus on certain things in the forms then it becomes more challenging for them and not as easy. For example, every straight punch is full speed, and every reverse punch is full power. After they complete the first round switch it to every straight punch is full power and every reverse punch is full speed.

if the only thing you are doing with kata is just moving then it's going to be really miserable. to do.
 

JowGaWolf

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yes but imagination is fantasy.
The better term is visualization. Visualization is not fantasy. If I am visualizing that I'm punching something that's in front of me while I'm punching, then my mind and muscles will respond in that same manner.

If I'm visualizing that I'm punching a heavy bag and you walk in front of my punch then you will get hit by the same power that put into punching a heavy bag, probably more. My teacher told his students that people should be afraid to walk in the middle of their form. It should be powerful enough that a person wants to take caution of getting in your way.


Visualization has several benefits when it comes to improving physical movement.
  1. Enhanced Skill Acquisition:
  2. Improved Execution and Muscle Memory:
  3. Precision and Accuracy:
 

JowGaWolf

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emmmm.... no reality is better like sparring
why play a play station game in your head?
I actually do that. I play call of duty and I often map out in my mind how I'm going to take out other players. I work the plan in my mind first and then I carry it out in the game.

Playing a game is for entertainment. Visualization has a different purpose. It requires you to identify a goal and to visually work out a way to accomplish it. Atheletes do it all the time. The best thing about kata, is that you can visualize while you are actually doing the action.
 

silent killer

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I actually do that. I play call of duty and I often map out in my mind how I'm going to take out other players. I work the plan in my mind first and then I carry it out in the game.

Playing a game is for entertainment. Visualization has a different purpose. It requires you to identify a goal and to visually work out a way to accomplish it. Atheletes do it all the time. The best thing about kata, is that you can visualize while you are actually doing the action.
sad..very sad
 

gyoja

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I know that this is an old thread and I dont teach karate, but in traditional TSD the hyungs are inseparable from the discipline for the same reasons Bill and others have mentioned.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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personally i have always preferred sparring & partner training, kata alone is boring
Partner training without partner is solo drills. If you link solo drills, you get solo form (Kata).

I have over 100 different partner training drills. When I don't have partner, I can train myself as solo drills. I don't link those drills into form, but I can if I want to (as showing in the following video).

 

Roy Kamen

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From my book:


Imagination

The world of reality has its limits; the world of imagination is boundless.
Jean-Jacques Rousseau


Your techniques must be effective in combat, or they are not correct.
But how do you know when your posture and hand position of a
particular technique is correct?
Reverse engineering is required to unwind the technique and
discover its mirror image. This process is called Bunkai and requires you
to use your imagination.
Kata is more than a solo dance routine consisting of fighting
techniques.
Kata is a fight with imaginary opponents.
As every Yin has a Yang and every Yang has a Yin, so does every
physical technique in a Kata; for every movement, there is an imaginary
opposing one. A physical punch has an imaginary block and visa-versa.
Imagination is a key component of Kata. The ability to visualize and
interact with an imaginary opponent is how we learn to apply Kata
techniques. Since our imagination is not limited by the physical, we can
visualize multiple technique counterparts. For instance, one technique
may have three or more imaginary scenarios.
Each imaginary scenario can result in small changes in how we do
Kata techniques. This creates virtually unlimited ways to practice, study,
and analyze Kata. By making fine adjustments in our Kata, we can fight
unlimited battles with better-trained opponents.
The ability to imagine can be trained to a high degree. Imagination
fuels the creative artist and is at the heart of the Martial Arts."
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Kata is overrated
If you have 100 techniques to train, how will you help yourself or your students to remember it? Technique 1, technique 2, ... technique 100?

Form is just like a textbook. It's used to record information. For example, if you can drill the following combo, it may help you to remember all the punching skill that you may need.

Right jab, left cross, right hook, left uppercut, right overhand, right back fist.

Is that just a 6 moves short form?

The following 8 moves combo has recorded a great deal of information. Move 1 set up move 2, move 2 set up move 3, ... , move 7 set up move 8. What can be the other ways to "record" the relationship of those 8 moves?

 
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