Judo or Wrestling?

[whitebeltforever]

How do i know whih one is more suited to me?
Im quite a big girl. I am reasonably strong. And i dont have too many issues with speed (used to do salsa). But im not the best at cardio... i get puffed out quite quickly in most activities. I love bjj and muay thai so far and i just want to learn one more m.a...
Should i do judo or wrestling?

I have read on other posts judo these days is so restricted by fed laws that its become wrestling with a gi... and iv read that wrestling is easier to learn.

I would like to do the one thats easy to learn when compared to the other, and the one that will be better in a self defense situation.
Any suggestions?

Thank u!

 

[Paul_D]

How do i know whih one is more suited to me?

The only way to know that is to give them both a try.

the one that will be better in a self defense situation.

My opinion on that has always been to do the one which you most enjoy. That way you are more likely to stick with it, and therefore become good at it.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

But im not the best at cardio

Both Judo and wrestling will build your cardio quite a bit.

I have read on other posts judo these days is so restricted by fed laws

Unless Australia has some unusual laws I don't know about, Judo is not restricted by law. The organizations which regulate the international sport of Judo have made a number of changes over the years, some of which are not always popular with practitioners. If you train at a school which is more oriented towards self-defense or the traditional art, then the latest tournament rules will be less of a concern for you.

become wrestling with a gi

Judo is a form of jacketed wrestling, one of many throughout the world. Nevertheless it has unique characteristics of its own (although the techniques can all be found in other arts).

iv read that wrestling is easier to learn

Nope. I'd say they're equally challenging. However the two arts traditionally have different approaches to teaching and training, so you may find that one fits your style of learning better.

the one that will be better in a self defense situation.

Both arts can be used very effectively in self-defense. However both arts are more commonly taught from a sport perspective than from a self-defense one. That means you will likely have to do the work of figuring out how the techniques have to be tweaked for a self-defense context.

I will add that both arts are excellent complements to your BJJ and will make you a better BJJ practitioner.

If you have access to instruction in both arts, I would try them both and see which class clicks with you the best.

 

[Steve]

Depends on what kind of wrestling. But either would be great, although I'm a fan of working with a gi. I think it's more realistic, as people don't generally walk around in a rash guard or a singlet.

 

[JR 137]

I wrestled for quite some time and coached it. I don't have any Judo experience, so take what I say about Judo as speculation...

Both should give you an equally good workout, if the intensity of training is equal, ie how much time is spent "on the mat" vs instructional type stuff.

The point of wrestling is to get your opponent on their back and pin them, or to score more points. There's no "finishing them;" only pinning them.

Judo's emphasis is a finishing throw, joint lock, or choke. Yes there are points, but that's not my perceived ultimate goal.

Judo will have a syllabus and a somewhat rigid structure to advancing. Wrestling will have a loose structure to advancing.

Wrestling can be easily adapted to "the streets." Throwing someone onto the pavement is going to hurt, regardless of it's a judo or wrestling throw. It's easy to make wrestling holds/moves painful to an opponent. Judo's holds are designed to be painful, not to get someone onto their back for a pin fall.

Judo and wrestling throws may look different and be named differently, but the principles are the same - it's body mechanics and the feeling of push/pull that makes a throw truly successful, not muscling it.

Wrestling has weight classes. Judo competition does too. If you're training non-competitively, judo classes may have you train with a lot of different weight people. Wrestlers who weigh 100 lbs don't wrestle people who weigh 150 very often.

It depends on what tickles your fancy more. Watch a few sessions of each and decide. I haven't been around too many judoka, but the ones I have been around were just as tough as any wrestler I've been around. There's no hiding in wrestling nor judo. You can throw people or you can't. You can submit/choke people or you can't. You can take people down and pin them or you can't. There's really nothing hypothetical like "I could have knife handed him in the throat, but I'm not allowed to as there is in many striking arts. Disclaimer- I'm a karate guy, so I'm not bashing.

 

[drop bear]

Wrestle if you can find a good club. In Australia it is so rare it is like a super power.

Cardio is not something you have or dont by the way.

You have control over that.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I'm a fan of working with a gi. I think it's more realistic, as people don't generally walk around in a rash guard or a singlet

I think it's a wash. People usually wear clothes, but it's not always the kind that you can use as an effective handle. That's why I'm a fan of training both gi and no-gi.

The point of wrestling is to get your opponent on their back and pin them, or to score more points. There's no "finishing them;" only pinning them.

Judo's emphasis is a finishing throw, joint lock, or choke. Yes there are points, but that's not my perceived ultimate goal.

Just wanted to point out that Judo also allows you to win by pin, although it has to be held longer than in wrestling. Other than that, your summation is pretty accurate.

 

[marques]

From my short experience, I find Wrestling more physical than Judo. Perhaps Wrestling is easier to learn. Perhaps Judo is more compatible with BJJ...

For self-defence... there are too many variables. Judo and Wrestling are more than two things, within two names. Both may be very effective (especially given you are training striking elsewhere).

I would choose Judo because it is more technical and more gentle to the body. (But in your place, I would try Wrestling, too, if there is a handy gym).

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If your goal is to integrate the striking art and the grappling art, the no-gi wrestling is more suitable than the gi Judo.

IMO, the "stiff arm - dancing with your opponent" is a bad habit to have in the gi environment.

After all, if you can use "single leg" to take down everybody on this planet, what else do you need?

 

[JR 137]

After all, if you can use "single leg" to take down everybody on this planet, what else do you need?

A way to keep them from getting back up.

 

[JR 137]

Just wanted to point out that Judo also allows you to win by pin, although it has to be held longer than in wrestling. Other than that, your summation is pretty accurate.

I didn't know that. Thanks, Tony.

I'm assuming I'm wrong, but I'll ask anyway...

Is the pin basically holding an ippon throw? I've seen throws that commentators have said it would've been an ippon if the thrower held it (or stuck the landing, so to speak) for a bit longer. Probably two different things, but I like new information. And I'm too lazy to google Judo rules.

 

[JR 137]

Perhaps Wrestling is easier to learn.

Perhaps Judo is more compatible with BJJ...

I would choose Judo because it is more technical and more gentle to the body. (But in your place, I would try Wrestling, too, if there is a handy gym).

I can't cut and paste multiple quotes, so please bear with me...

I've seen a lot of Judo instructional stuff (I guess that means I know what I'm talking about ). I don't think one looks much easier to learn than another. Judo may have more techniques (?), being a long-term and formal structured curriculum. I'd imagine that once you get past the basics and start developing deeper strategy, both would be equally difficult, as would any MA.

BJJ came from Judo, and I've seen sources state Brazilian Judo would've been a more appropriate name for the art.

I don't know if Judo is "more technical," but I've seen Judo teachers (again, I'm a YouTube warrior right now) explain techniques far more thoroughly than wrestling coaches. Perhaps the perfectionist Japanese mentality (without stereotyping)? Wrestling coaches will more often briefly explain a technique, have you do it a few times until you've got the basics of it, then leave you to practice it with a partner over and over.

As far as more gentle on the body... no submissions in wrestling. How hard you're thrown is up to your partner(s) and how well you land. The better the wrestler, the more control in the throw; they want you where they want you so they don't have to work as hard to pin you. Some advanced wrestlers will throw you "harder," but they're usually intentionally doing that.

Take it all with a grain of salt. I spent exactly 2 hours in Judo one night with a friend during open-mat.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I didn't know that. Thanks, Tony.

I'm assuming I'm wrong, but I'll ask anyway...

Is the pin basically holding an ippon throw? I've seen throws that commentators have said it would've been an ippon if the thrower held it (or stuck the landing, so to speak) for a bit longer. Probably two different things, but I like new information. And I'm too lazy to google Judo rules.

Okay, I need to clarify the terminology a bit. Ippon refers to a single action which wins the match instantly so it doesn't have to go to points. A throw which lands the throwee cleanly and forcefully directly on their back is ippon. A submission which gets the tap is ippon. Pinning the opponent continuously for a set period of time (not sure of the current rule, it used to be 25 seconds) is ippon. The pin doesn't have to come directly off of a throw. One difference from wrestling (besides the duration) is that if the bottom person can catch the top person in any sort of guard or half guard then the pin is considered broken.

 

[JR 137]

Okay, I need to clarify the terminology a bit. Ippon refers to a single action which wins the match instantly so it doesn't have to go to points. A throw which lands the throwee cleanly and forcefully directly on their back is ippon. A submission which gets the tap is ippon. Pinning the opponent continuously for a set period of time (not sure of the current rule, it used to be 25 seconds) is ippon. The pin doesn't have to come directly off of a throw. One difference from wrestling (besides the duration) is that if the bottom person can catch the top person in any sort of guard or half guard then the pin is considered broken.

Thanks again, Tony. I thought ippon was strictly a "killing" throw.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I don't know if Judo is "more technical," but I've seen Judo teachers (again, I'm a YouTube warrior right now) explain techniques far more thoroughly than wrestling coaches. Perhaps the perfectionist Japanese mentality (without stereotyping)? Wrestling coaches will more often briefly explain a technique, have you do it a few times until you've got the basics of it, then leave you to practice it with a partner over and over.

I think this is a cultural difference in teaching. At the highest levels, wrestling is just as technical as Judo. However Judo instruction typically starts with attention to the subtle details of technique right from the beginning. I didn't wrestle in school, but from what I've been told, wrestlers typically start out with a few fundamentals and a ton of physical and mental conditioning. If they stick with it long enough to reach the higher levels, then they start learning the more technical details.

 

[drop bear]

I can't cut and paste multiple quotes, so please bear with me...

I've seen a lot of Judo instructional stuff (I guess that means I know what I'm talking about ). I don't think one looks much easier to learn than another. Judo may have more techniques (?), being a long-term and formal structured curriculum. I'd imagine that once you get past the basics and start developing deeper strategy, both would be equally difficult, as would any MA.

BJJ came from Judo, and I've seen sources state Brazilian Judo would've been a more appropriate name for the art.

I don't know if Judo is "more technical," but I've seen Judo teachers (again, I'm a YouTube warrior right now) explain techniques far more thoroughly than wrestling coaches. Perhaps the perfectionist Japanese mentality (without stereotyping)? Wrestling coaches will more often briefly explain a technique, have you do it a few times until you've got the basics of it, then leave you to practice it with a partner over and over.

As far as more gentle on the body... no submissions in wrestling. How hard you're thrown is up to your partner(s) and how well you land. The better the wrestler, the more control in the throw; they want you where they want you so they don't have to work as hard to pin you. Some advanced wrestlers will throw you "harder," but they're usually intentionally doing that.

Take it all with a grain of salt. I spent exactly 2 hours in Judo one night with a friend during open-mat.

There kind of is submissions in wrestling. you just cant tap.

 

[KangTsai]

Depends on what kind of wrestling. But either would be great, although I'm a fan of working with a gi. I think it's more realistic, as people don't generally walk around in a rash guard or a singlet.

The jackets are at a borderline to being realistic I think. General dayclothes are never that thick and ropey like the average gi, making it possible, yet more difficult to use jacket techniques on them.

 

[KangTsai]

I think this is a cultural difference in teaching. At the highest levels, wrestling is just as technical as Judo. However Judo instruction typically starts with attention to the subtle details of technique right from the beginning. I didn't wrestle in school, but from what I've been told, wrestlers typically start out with a few fundamentals and a ton of physical and mental conditioning. If they stick with it long enough to reach the higher levels, then they start learning the more technical details.

Mainly because it's taught as a competitive form from the get-go to relatively young kids. I wish wrestling was a more popular (or even existing) school sport here; I would've competed without second thought.

 

[whitebeltforever]

hi everyone thank u so so much for all your insight and really experienced advice. i will try and reply to you all individually later... just wanted to share first...
i just got back from my first wrestling class! it was HARRRRRD ..... i mean.. i never knew it was SO much gymnastics!! the warm up nearly killed me... cartwheels, shooting forward rolls, backward rolls on the head!? and forward and backward handstand flips?!!? lol ... i felt like a panda!! an old old panda... lol

so the actual class made me laugh so hard i couldnt breathe properly... i dont know why i just really find the grappling type arts very fun and very funny.... i mean i LOVE them SO SO much... but they are so funny because you are in these "three stooges" type positions...

anyway, we learnt 2 moves. and practiced lots. the teacher didn't really say too much about me. but i accidentally scored 2 points! and i dont remember how! lolll .....apart from that i really dont know what i dont know yet... (i have reached a point in my bjj to know that i dont know alot at all) it was just so tiring... i liked that i was allowed to use my size and strength (im 5'6 but 85kgs/190lbs and a lifter)... i was exhausted after a real wrestling practice of 2 mins tho... and did not last another 4mins. i gave myself permission to sit out of it in the end because i know that if i push i will injure myself as i hav done so so many times before (also have systemic lupus a life long autoimmune disease and 3 months out from breast cancer treatments).

i liked it except the insane warm up!! does judo have these warmups?! i will try my best to go to a judo class this sat or next sat... i liked that in tnite's wrestling class i understood what the teacher was doing... even tho it took a few times before i got my head around the first thing he taught which was ... i forget the name... but you pull the arm towards you adn somehow get behind the person etc.

it was halarious as i was hopping around on one leg trying to not get taken down.. and even more halariousous when my guy was laughing at me laughing so much that i couldnt breathe...

i hav no idea how i will like judo... so will still hav to come back here and report...
one thing i noticed tho is that i was very afraid to do those hand and headstand flips even tho they are over another person... i was really scared to go over. even as a yoga teacher in my previous life, i could never ever do the headstand without a wall or the handstand for that matter... not sure how i'd go being thrown in judo style....

i will update again after judo...

 

[JR 137]

hi everyone thank u so so much for all your insight and really experienced advice. i will try and reply to you all individually later... just wanted to share first...
i just got back from my first wrestling class! it was HARRRRRD ..... i mean.. i never knew it was SO much gymnastics!! the warm up nearly killed me... cartwheels, shooting forward rolls, backward rolls on the head!? and forward and backward handstand flips?!!? lol ... i felt like a panda!! an old old panda... lol

so the actual class made me laugh so hard i couldnt breathe properly... i dont know why i just really find the grappling type arts very fun and very funny.... i mean i LOVE them SO SO much... but they are so funny because you are in these "three stooges" type positions...

anyway, we learnt 2 moves. and practiced lots. the teacher didn't really say too much about me. but i accidentally scored 2 points! and i dont remember how! lolll .....apart from that i really dont know what i dont know yet... (i have reached a point in my bjj to know that i dont know alot at all) it was just so tiring... i liked that i was allowed to use my size and strength (im 5'6 but 85kgs/190lbs and a lifter)... i was exhausted after a real wrestling practice of 2 mins tho... and did not last another 4mins. i gave myself permission to sit out of it in the end because i know that if i push i will injure myself as i hav done so so many times before (also have systemic lupus a life long autoimmune disease and 3 months out from breast cancer treatments).

i liked it except the insane warm up!! does judo have these warmups?! i will try my best to go to a judo class this sat or next sat... i liked that in tnite's wrestling class i understood what the teacher was doing... even tho it took a few times before i got my head around the first thing he taught which was ... i forget the name... but you pull the arm towards you adn somehow get behind the person etc.

it was halarious as i was hopping around on one leg trying to not get taken down.. and even more halariousous when my guy was laughing at me laughing so much that i couldnt breathe...

i hav no idea how i will like judo... so will still hav to come back here and report...
one thing i noticed tho is that i was very afraid to do those hand and headstand flips even tho they are over another person... i was really scared to go over. even as a yoga teacher in my previous life, i could never ever do the headstand without a wall or the handstand for that matter... not sure how i'd go being thrown in judo style....

i will update again after judo...

Thanks for bringing back some great memories