Tae Kwon Do Club or Business

[matt.m]

I know I have not posted often since the new job, but it is a bear so any off time is just relax and chill. However, I have to know something guys.

You opinions of the Tae Kwon Do club vs. business. Pro/Con of each etc. etc.

Interesting side note. I have a key to the school so I get there a little earlier than everyone else. I read an article about one of Jhoon Rhee's earlier U.S. Students. He runs a school in Denver Colorado.

I was with him on his remarks of a good school until he said "You should make on average 300.00 a month per student." So I read further about how he broke down the levels of membership. No true lines of distinction were readily apparent.

I know that we in Moo Sul Kwan were founded by GGM Park to be more of the club kind of scenerio. "Everyone who wants to train, can".

So before I elaborate on my thoughts I would like to hear everyone else's.

Thanks,

 

[K31]

$300 a month average? $300 a month is higher than I've heard of anyone paying.

 

[Carol]

$300 a month average? $300 a month is higher than I've heard of anyone paying.

I don't think that total means tuition alone. I think that means tuition, fees, uniform costs, privates, belt fees, accessories and nicknacks, photos, black belt club....all the reasons why a person would write a check to an MA school.

I pay about that for my FMA training (one private per week).

 

[bushidomartialarts]

There's definitely a spirit running around in our subculture that anybody who runs a club as a business is somehow doing it wrong, pimping or prostituting this beautiful thing that we share.

But running a dojo like a business (as opposed to running it like a scam) is nothing but positive for the arts. It means more people get to train (a well run business can afford to scholarship students who can't afford lessons). It means higher quality instruction (a full-time instructor spends 50+ hours a week thinking about karate -- something a part-time club owner just doesn't have the luxury to do). It means, often, a stronger community of students within the dojo (full time dojos have the time and facilities to build community).

Now, a dojo run like a scam by a charlatin or somebody just after the money -- overcharging, poor credentials, undertrained staff -- that's as bad as a scam in any other industry. But overall, if you're going to run a dojo, run it like a business.

As far as the $300 a month goes, that's high but not outrageous if he's talking about a monthly gross per student. Tuition at $300 is insane, but a lot of places are charging $125 - $150 these days. Training is certainly worth that much. That just means the student spends $50-$75 each month on equipment, special events, gatorade from the drink machine, that sort of stuff. That's not unheard of, or even unusual. Lots of my students do that.

 

[K31]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say someone should not make a profit.

And I can certainly see paying this for individual instruction.

I was simply stating from what I have seen posted in reply to a thread on another board asking how much people pay, this is higher than anything anyone reported paying.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

agreed. that's very high tuition. but like i said, it's not too bad to set as a goal for average income from a student.

my studio has lots of special events, a healthy pro shop, private lesson options and a couple of upgrade packages. i'd say about 10-15% of our students come in around $300/month, even though our tuition is only 125.

 

[crushing]

You opinions of the Tae Kwon Do club vs. business. Pro/Con of each etc. etc.

I was with him on his remarks of a good school until he said "You should make on average 300.00 a month per student." So I read further about how he broke down the levels of membership. No true lines of distinction were readily apparent.

Club v. Business? Sounds more like Club v. Country Club!


I understand there is a demand, I'm just messing with the business people here.

 

[Shaderon]

I totally agree with running a club like a business, it means that you can commit to giving your students your attention and not having a job get in the way.

The $300 a months seems very high though, and I sympathise with anyone paying near to that amount, even if it's equiptment also.

I pay £15 a month for my daughter who trains "part time" (1 night a week) and £25 a month for me for full time (whenever I want to attend a class) plus we have the instructors email and phone number for questions that won't wait. Before these fees were set up it was £3 a class or £4 a class depending on where you trained. Private one on one classes are a lot more, I think it's around £30 an hour for 1 or 2 students, the same as Personal Training fees, but that's understandable as the instructor travels to your home or rents a studio at a gym.

Even with the dollar at it's low of around $2 to £1 (2 USD to 1 GBP) this is WAY below the $300 a month per student.

 

[RED]

I've had better experiences in a club setting than a for profit business. The club dosen't have the liabilities a school have. Weapons, breaking. People are friendly in clubs. This is my personal experience. In a school I've had BB that weight 350lbs at 5'5" treat me with a pompous attitude. That is one reason I left. The other is the $70 monthly fee wasn't bad but the special weekend long class at $200 more was a little much for me. I don't have a problem with people making money for teaching, but don't get rediculous. The Club I'm in is intense and I'm learning weapons and Jujitsu along with the TKD. Clubs are more flexable to venture into new areas. And the monthly fee is cheap and it gets put back into the club.

just my 2¥

 

[Touch Of Death]

$300 a month average? $300 a month is higher than I've heard of anyone paying.

Jeet Koon Do lessons in Spokane were $400 a month and that was in 91.
Sean

 

[Touch Of Death]

I don't think that total means tuition alone. I think that means tuition, fees, uniform costs, privates, belt fees, accessories and nicknacks, photos, black belt club....all the reasons why a person would write a check to an MA school.

I pay about that for my FMA training (one private per week).

Oh Carol.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Don't business and club mean the same thing?

 

[Carol]

Oh Carol.

Sorry. That should have said two privates per week.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Sorry. That should have said two privates per week.

Better

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Don't business and club mean the same thing?

I think that's sort of the point of the thread. A lot of people think there needs to be a difference.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I think that's sort of the point of the thread. A lot of people think there needs to be a difference.

Ain't going to happen here in The US, but I can see it happening in a strict dictatorship or some other country's government program.
Sean

 

[Balrog]

I, personally, would teach for free because I love the art and I know I am making a positive difference in people's lives.

After I win the lottery, I will do that. Until then, I have rent, utilities, phone, etc. to pay. I have to charge for my services and in order to do that in the best, fairest way possible, I have to be a professional business person as well as a professional martial artist. I use contracts that spell out specifically what the consumer/student can expect. I use liability releases. I have insurance.

The days of the teacher sitting on a rock and dispensing wisdom and knowledge in return for a bowl of rice are long gone.

 

[tsdclaflin]

It would seem to me to depend on the instructor and the student. As a student, I started in club at a YMCA. After 8 months, I wanted more, so I found a "business" and trained there for five years. When my time prevented me from training more that once or twice a week, I changed to a different "club".

There are pros and cons. Now I run my own school like a "club". I don't want to teach MA full-time and I live in a rural area. So club it is. If I was in a metro area, I would go probably hook up with a business again and not teach on my own or teach for the business part-time.