Japaneese taboos...

[Satt]

I am personally curious, what are some Japaneese/Bujinkan taboos I should watch out for? What would be considered rude or wrong to ask or talk about here? I just want to know so I don't offend in the future when I post. Thanks in advance.

 

[Mountain Kusa]

Talking about what will happen after someones demise before they pass is pretty serious. But remember, you nor I are Japanese, therefor our customs are different. However, the Japanese tend to be very polite and will never discuss bad things on a public forum, espeacially if it is something that should remain Quiet. Someone that has been to japan could probably tell you more, I only know some things I have heard. When we meet in person I will tell you some things that should never be posted or talked about on a public forum.

 

[Satt]

I just wanted to say thanks to whoever dinged me with this comment...

"We are out of silver platters, will you take paper? In other words, do some research yourself."

...you have really shown me how stupid I am to ask questions on a forum. Just for all those people I keep offending somehow, I will no longer post on the "Ninjutsu" or "Traditional" forum. Thank you Mountain Kusa for your time and patience on the traditional side of things. Thanks to gmunoz, Limeydog, and Enson for being nice to me when I was searching for answers. Just as a side note, I have allways asked questions in a kind and humble manner. If you were offended, sorry. Have a nice life.

 

[Jay Bell]

I'm confused....who were you offending?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Y'know....good question there Jay. I didn't see anything wrong about his question here...I mean, the dinger said "Do research"...well, that was what he was doing.

Hell, I'd like to know some of this myself.

 

[GAB]

Hi,

Well with that type of comment it ought to be researched by the man in the red cape, and find out who this enlighted person is and give them a little taste..

Satt, don't go there. Hang in there you will survive, it is the other who is missing the point of all this...:jedi1:

I want to say something here and no offense ment. I have been doing some research, (when I was on Vacation).

There are hundreds and hundreds, several thousand that use this board yet only about 5% are supporting members.

We need to change this and get more people helping out, I am not trying to save my behind here. Wellllll:idunno:

I am saying if you want a good board like this and the Admin wanting to particapate and also learn, then you need to support this group.

For good or bad I make my own decisions and no one else is to blame.
But I think it is pretty appaling to have this good board and not that many are supporters...

Come on people lets change that.artyon:

My humble opinion, I have been trying for a good time and way to bring this up, and I have in my opinion found the right time.

Regards, Gary

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

http://www.geocities.com/japanfaq/FAQ-Manners.html

http://www.thejapanfaq.com/FAQ-Primer.html

 

[Kizaru]

What would be considered rude or wrong to ask or talk about here? I just want to know so I don't offend in the future when I post. Thanks in advance.

I thought that the stuff posted here: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17457&page=1&pp=15

was pretty good; especially "proper care and feeding of translators". In addition, I feel that asking direct, personal questions of people before you really know them is not a good idea. Leaving trash inside, in front of, next to or on top of the Honbu dojo is not good. There's no trash can at the Honbu, and maybe there's a reason for that. I think it's interesting that people are coming to Japan to train in "ninjutsu" and are leaving evidence that they were there in the form of heaps of trash...real stealthy....anyway, there are plenty of books on Japanese culture out there that you can read up on, but there are some points about dojo etiquette that may not be out there. The best place to learn that would be in a dojo, but I think due to jet lag, some people forget these things. Like:

* Watch out for the kamidana. Make sure you know how long the weapon is you're using so you don't accidently smack something off of the kamidana.

* Don't lean on the walls, that's considered rude.

* You shouldn't stand with your arms folded across your chest, people used to conceal weapons that way.

* When bowing in, senior students sit to the far right in the front. It may be difficult to figure this out at the honbu with big groups of people from all over, but the Japanese shihan probably outrank you, and in the smaller private dojos, who sits where should be easier to figure out.

* Asking about how to do Kuji or where the "secret training on the golf course" during the first time you train might not be the best idea. (Might not be a good idea during your 2nd, 3rd or 4th times training either).

* At some dojo, students wipe down the floors after training. It's okay if you want to pick up a rag or a broom and help out.

As far as what not to talk about on the internet, if you think it would cause a problem, best not to ask it. If it's derogatory or inflammatory, maybe that should be avoided as well. If you need to ask, ask someone in person or by private message and don't get angry if the answer you get isn't what you were expecting.

 

[RRouuselot]

Talking about what will happen after someones demise before they pass is pretty serious. But remember, you nor I are Japanese, therefor our customs are different. However, the Japanese tend to be very polite and will never discuss bad things on a public forum, espeacially if it is something that should remain Quiet. Someone that has been to japan could probably tell you more, I only know some things I have heard. When we meet in person I will tell you some things that should never be posted or talked about on a public forum.

Not true.

There are tons of websites in Japanese where very bad things are discussed….there are even TV shows that will have re-enactments of family problems like cheating spouses, mother-in-laws that boss their daughter-in-laws around like slaves, etc.

As for Japanese being “polite” well it all depends on what the situation is, who you are and what they need or don’t need from you.

Anyone that lives in Japan that ever went to the old Tokyo Immigration Office can tell you what Japanese are like when they want to be rude.

Japanese politeness is perfunctory at best. Don’t be fooled by the grinning and bowing they do….. some times they might be thinking “why don’t you kiss my *** you smelly gaijin lump of dung”. I guy I used to work with hated foreigners, however whenever he met one or had to deal with one he was all smiles and bowing.

 

[Cryozombie]

I just wanted to say thanks to whoever dinged me with this comment...

Dude dont sweat it... people have dinged me for stupid stupid stupid stuff.

I got a rep ding once for Talking about a former hapkido practitioner, and saying his background was in hapkido... and I was dinged and told not to bring up hapkido!

Its all silly. Of course, for a small donation you could become a supporting member and turn your rep off... THAT'LL teach em. Hehe.

 

[Mountain Kusa]

Jason,

No-one wants you to leave, You have asked some very valid questions and i have no doubt when you get here you will have many more. I encourage them. You have enthusiasm.

Everything in this art is a learning experience. It may come in the form of learning proper respect for a higher ranked (or not)or a better skilled person. Some people have to learn the hard way by getting slammed to the ground a couple of times before they get that. Other times people are shunned until they learn a mental lesson. The point I am trying to make, wanting to learn is its own pleasure or pain. Some of us are better at things than others.

You have not had formal training around other individuals, so it is hard to know that what happens in a dojo also happens here. There is a lot of respect that goes here between the lines. A sure way to lose respect is by getting mad and leaving. There will be times in the training when you will think someone is trying to kill you and the pain will be excruciating. But when it is over you will have learned something or not. The choice is yours as always.

This art is about choices, nobody expects a person to be perfect, but all teachers want the best for their students, even when they are having a hard time and learning the hard way, but all teachers want their students to learn. Sometimes, learning the hard way provides for the better lesson.

 

[Mountain Kusa]

Jason, here is something else that may help you to understand what is most important.

There was a student that approached a master for training. After discussing the style and what was expected, the student asked the master how long will it be before i get to black belt?

The master replied" if you train well and with a proper heart it will be about five years or so, but that depends on you."

The student replied, " what if i train twice as hard?"

The master replied "Ten years."

The confused student pondered this and said, What if i give up everything I do, and train every day, how long will it take?"

The master replied, "a lifetime."

Ponder this well.

 

[RRouuselot]

Jason,

I wouldn't worry about the "ding" a lot of people here will "ding" someone for the dumbest reasons.....hell half the time they won't even give a reason.

Your questions are valid and unless you ask you won't learn. At least you asked....some folks just assume they know but actually don't.
There are a number of people on MT that live in Japan aand have been long term residents here. I have no doubt you can get several perspectives for any question about Japan.

 

[RRouuselot]

Jason, here is something else that may help you to understand what is most important.

There was a student that approached a master for training. After discussing the style and what was expected, the student asked the master how long will it be before i get to black belt?

The master replied" if you train well and with a proper heart it will be about five years or so, but that depends on you."

The student replied, " what if i train twice as hard?"

The master replied "Ten years."

The confused student pondered this and said, What if i give up everything I do, and train every day, how long will it take?"

The master replied, "a lifetime."

Ponder this well.

Actually that is a famous story about a zen master and prospective student.......but the idea is the same.

 

[Don Roley]

Everything in this art is a learning experience. It may come in the form of learning proper respect for a higher ranked (or not)or a better skilled person. Some people have to learn the hard way by getting slammed to the ground a couple of times before they get that. Other times people are shunned until they learn a mental lesson. The point I am trying to make, wanting to learn is its own pleasure or pain. Some of us are better at things than others.

You have not had formal training around other individuals, so it is hard to know that what happens in a dojo also happens here. There is a lot of respect that goes here between the lines. A sure way to lose respect is by getting mad and leaving. There will be times in the training when you will think someone is trying to kill you and the pain will be excruciating. But when it is over you will have learned something or not. The choice is yours as always.

This art is about choices, nobody expects a person to be perfect, but all teachers want the best for their students, even when they are having a hard time and learning the hard way. But all teachers want their students to learn. Sometimes, learning the hard way provides for the better lesson.

Jason,
I think you should listen to the above. In fact, I think you should reconsider if martial arts and the Bujinkan are really for you. This art is not for everyone. And while martialarts do provide benifits for people who take them, you have to be the right type of person to achieve those gains.

Take a look at this post and then compare it with the drama you raise over a bad reputation ding. I honestly don't think you can survive the type of training that I talked about if you get as worked up as you are over this matter.

And that is not the only thing. Consider the fact that you have not set foot in a real dojo yet and you have 168 posts already. You did not even know where the patch goes on the uniform until this week and you are already saying that you are going to be a teacher someday. You have not been shown the san shin and you went out and got a green belt. And the list goes on.

Honestly, with the attitude I see from you, I know you are not going to be around in five years. You may want to reconsider your plans for studying martial arts, or you attitude and outlook of life.

Let us take a look at this matter. You want to know about Japanese taboos. Well, entire books have been written about the matter. Many of them can be found in your local library. So, why didn't you stop by one before you asked people to take time away from other activities to answer your questions? This relates to what I have seen here in Japan. There is indeed such a thing as a stupid question. The Japanese do not seem to have any great love or respect for people that will not try to seek answers for themselves and instead need to be spoon- fed knowledge. In some areas, they would rather you ask them to correct and give guidance rather than provide everything laid out on the table.

This may be a harsh lesson. But I seen your type time after time in the years I have been in this art. No one who has acted like you and not changed their attitude is still around. You may be offended by what I say, but I cannot honestly help you by patting your hand and telling you that things will be ok. You need to hear this unpleasent truth. I still say that five years from now, you will probably not be involved at all in this art. But this is the best I can do to try to help you.

 

[gmunoz]

Jason,
I think you should listen to the above. In fact, I think you should reconsider if martial arts and the Bujinkan are really for you. This art is not for everyone. And while martialarts do provide benifits for people who take them, you have to be the right type of person to achieve those gains.

Take a look at this post and then compare it with the drama you raise over a bad reputation ding. I honestly don't think you can survive the type of training that I talked about if you get as worked up as you are over this matter.

And that is not the only thing. Consider the fact that you have not set foot in a real dojo yet and you have 168 posts already. You did not even know where the patch goes on the uniform until this week and you are already saying that you are going to be a teacher someday. You have not been shown the san shin and you went out and got a green belt. And the list goes on.

Honestly, with the attitude I see from you, I know you are not going to be around in five years. You may want to reconsider your plans for studying martial arts, or you attitude and outlook of life.

Let us take a look at this matter. You want to know about Japanese taboos. Well, entire books have been written about the matter. Many of them can be found in your local library. So, why didn't you stop by one before you asked people to take time away from other activities to answer your questions? This relates to what I have seen here in Japan. There is indeed such a thing as a stupid question. The Japanese do not seem to have any great love or respect for people that will not try to seek answers for themselves and instead need to be spoon- fed knowledge. In some areas, they would rather you ask them to correct and give guidance rather than provide everything laid out on the table.

This may be a harsh lesson. But I seen your type time after time in the years I have been in this art. No one who has acted like you and not changed their attitude is still around. You may be offended by what I say, but I cannot honestly help you by patting your hand and telling you that things will be ok. You need to hear this unpleasent truth. I still say that five years from now, you will probably not be involved at all in this art. But this is the best I can do to try to help you.

Jason,

Don't listen to any of the naysayers say you can't do this. You can do anything you put your mind, heart, and soul to. Keep up your training!

 

[Kizaru]

Jason,

Don't listen to any of the naysayers say you can't do this.

Interesting. I didn't see anything in Don Roley's post that said Satt couldn't do something, rather that if he continued doing what he's doing now, he "probably" wouldn't be in this art in five years.

I don't see Don Roley as a "naysayer" here. Someone with less experience than Don Roley might see this as a snub or as an "unmotivating statement". I don't see it that way at all. Rather than being politically correct and dancing around, he's giving someone some good advice for success in a very direct and unadulterated fashion to avoid miscommunication.

"If you ask a question, don't be disappointed if the answer isn't what you expected."

 

[Don Roley]

Dealt with this issue here. And I note with humor that gmunoz dinged me for negative points while Satt gave me positve with a message thanking me for my honesty.

:2xBird2:

I stand ready to be the guy that speaks the truth even if it makes me seem like a demon. I have been through basic training in the army and they never patted me on the hand when I was in the dumps. I still believe it was the best thing to happen to me as a person. I would not give up what I experienced in the Ft Benning school for boys for a million dollars even thought I would not put myself through that hell for the same amount. Sometimes you need a friend to let you cry on your shoulder. I have both been the shoulder and the crier. At other times you need someone to kick you in the **** to bring you back in line. I have been both the foot and the ****. I still think that Jason needs to re-examine what he does. But I can sleep the sleep of the just tonight knowing that I seem to have done some good based on what he has said to me.

 

[Kizaru]

I would not give up what I experienced in the Ft Benning school for boys for a million dollars even thought I would not put myself through that hell for the same amount.

:iws:

 

[Satt]

Actually, now that I think about it, my Navy "boot camp" could more accurately have been called a "school for boys." No joke. The Navy concentrates more on mental tear down than physical. LOL.