Is it OK for my child to be humiliated?

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Tez3

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I don't remember him saying anything about training or provoking the fight. In my mind, it was a 4 year old who was being teased, then flipped out and stabbed one of the 12 year olds with a knife. I haven't seen anything like that happen, either, but a friend of mine who works at a child psych private practice has told me similar stories so its not unbelievable to me.

It was on another thread, he described what he did. He didn't 'flip out' according to him, it was a planned attack after he'd trained himself.

"The school's bullies were two brothers, and their three friends. They liked to wait between the gym and the school and steal the other kid's lunch money. Having nothing for them to steal, I used to make them fight me, when ever I cought them, so the victim could get away. Course, with the significant difference between us, I inevetable allways lost. When I got tired of losing I found a tree and determined to teach myself to fight. I spent a weekend getting my butt kicked by an oaktree and learned two exercises, which I practiced. Anyway, long story shorter, the next week at school they decided I had offended them and cornered me in the playground. I was back to a brick wall and one of them stepped forward and punched. Instictivly, I moved my hand in a counterclockwise roll under his punch and dodged left. I had his fist against my neck and my hand against his elbow. I stepped in twisted and applied pressure. Not wanting to hurt his arm he spun with me. Right into the brick wall. Since that didn't take the fight out of him, I grabbed him by the hair and put him face first into that same wall again. That put him down, and I turned my attention to the other one. He had been punching me, and now seeing that I couldn't beat him in a straight fight I ran. He chased, and I couldn't get away so I ran up the seesaw and jumped down on the other end. He cought the other end as it was going up. The whole playground cheered and I was promptly expelled."
 
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gpseymour

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It was on another thread, he described what he did. He didn't 'flip out' according to him, it was a planned attack after he'd trained himself.

"The school's bullies were two brothers, and their three friends. They liked to wait between the gym and the school and steal the other kid's lunch money. Having nothing for them to steal, I used to make them fight me, when ever I cought them, so the victim could get away. Course, with the significant difference between us, I inevetable allways lost. When I got tired of losing I found a tree and determined to teach myself to fight. I spent a weekend getting my butt kicked by an oaktree and learned two exercises, which I practiced. Anyway, long story shorter, the next week at school they decided I had offended them and cornered me in the playground. I was back to a brick wall and one of them stepped forward and punched. Instictivly, I moved my hand in a counterclockwise roll under his punch and dodged left. I had his fist against my neck and my hand against his elbow. I stepped in twisted and applied pressure. Not wanting to hurt his arm he spun with me. Right into the brick wall. Since that didn't take the fight out of him, I grabbed him by the hair and put him face first into that same wall again. That put him down, and I turned my attention to the other one. He had been punching me, and now seeing that I couldn't beat him in a straight fight I ran. He chased, and I couldn't get away so I ran up the seesaw and jumped down on the other end. He cought the other end as it was going up. The whole playground cheered and I was promptly expelled."
Interestingly, it's the sheer level of detail that is most unbelievable. Not only do our minds not store information that way, but the level of emotion in an event like that will block most details from active recall. The kind of elevated limbic response in the brain during those situations makes this sort of video-camera accuracy nearly impossible.
 

Tez3

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Ok, now it is fully unbelievable. Thank you, I had not seen that.

While it seems way off topic I wanted it made clear to the OP, a father of a child who is learning martial arts, that we don't turn children into fighting machines who go 'beast mode' on other children. The wrestling match isn't 'beast mode' that's an unfortunate description for a young talented wrestler.
Parents do worry that their children may be encouraged or taught to use what they learn in a martial arts class outside in the playground and on siblings. As instructors though we do emphasis that there is a time and place for using what is learnt, there are considerations and consequences to using your skills and we make sure this is understood. We don't encourage violence, we teach people to defend themselves not to incite fights.
The subject of bullying is a large and worrying one, in the UK all the martial arts organisations have child protection policies in place, the instructors have to be vetted through a government scheme if they teach children and young people. The organisations also spend a lot of time on 'anti bullying' tactics and techniques.
 

Tames D

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"The school's bullies were two brothers, and their three friends. They liked to wait between the gym and the school and steal the other kid's lunch money. Having nothing for them to steal, I used to make them fight me, when ever I cought them, so the victim could get away. Course, with the significant difference between us, I inevetable allways lost. When I got tired of losing I found a tree and determined to teach myself to fight. I spent a weekend getting my butt kicked by an oaktree and learned two exercises, which I practiced. Anyway, long story shorter, the next week at school they decided I had offended them and cornered me in the playground. I was back to a brick wall and one of them stepped forward and punched. Instictivly, I moved my hand in a counterclockwise roll under his punch and dodged left. I had his fist against my neck and my hand against his elbow. I stepped in twisted and applied pressure. Not wanting to hurt his arm he spun with me. Right into the brick wall. Since that didn't take the fight out of him, I grabbed him by the hair and put him face first into that same wall again. That put him down, and I turned my attention to the other one. He had been punching me, and now seeing that I couldn't beat him in a straight fight I ran. He chased, and I couldn't get away so I ran up the seesaw and jumped down on the other end. He cought the other end as it was going up. The whole playground cheered and I was promptly expelled."

LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL
 

mograph

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Interestingly, it's the sheer level of detail that is most unbelievable. Not only do our minds not store information that way, but the level of emotion in an event like that will block most details from active recall. The kind of elevated limbic response in the brain during those situations makes this sort of video-camera accuracy nearly impossible.
Not if you're Sherlock Holmes!
bd8214ad062bf4331cc1f70833ed508e.jpg
 

drop bear

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Interestingly, it's the sheer level of detail that is most unbelievable. Not only do our minds not store information that way, but the level of emotion in an event like that will block most details from active recall. The kind of elevated limbic response in the brain during those situations makes this sort of video-camera accuracy nearly impossible.

Nope. I recalled the story of my mate being stabbed pretty clearly when it happened.

The only fight i don't clearly remember is one where the other guy almost uppercutted me airborn.
The actual events make it unbelievable.
 

ballen0351

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Nope. I recalled the story of my mate being stabbed pretty clearly when it happened.
.
were you 4? Big difference between recalling events as an adult vs remembering things from when you were 4
 

drop bear

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were you 4? Big difference between recalling events as an adult vs remembering things from when you were 4

Doesn't matter in this instance. Age was not raised as a factor.

If i was i would agreed with that part of it.
 

Tez3

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Doesn't matter in this instance. Age was not raised as a factor.

If i was i would agreed with that part of it.

Actually age was the point of the posts, he said he was four and that's why the discussion... because he was four.
 

drop bear

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Actually age was the point of the posts, he said he was four and that's why the discussion... because he was four.

Not the one i responded to.

Age was not mentioned at all.
 

mograph

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Interestingly, it's the sheer level of detail that is most unbelievable. Not only do our minds not store information that way, but the level of emotion in an event like that will block most details from active recall. The kind of elevated limbic response in the brain during those situations makes this sort of video-camera accuracy nearly impossible.
Well, I'm not so sure now. Just did a bit of checking ...
Studies have suggested that under stress, negative events are encoded with more detail. Here's one:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24055594
But that's just one study -- not definitive yet, I think.
The role of emotion in memory | About memory

Anyway, I'm not sure that the event is depicted as a stressful event, anyway. It sounds as if the fighter (at age 4) acted in a cold and calculating manner, not unlike Sherlock Holmes as played by Downey, so stress might not have played a part in his responses to the event.

The story suggests that the fighter can recall his techniques in detail. But if, at age 4, he were as responsive and skilled as he suggests, his responses may have derived from implicit (procedural) memory: it's likely that he would have just reacted, and in his story, he wrote that he reacted "instinctively," no doubt due to his extensive training at the oak tree. Under such conditions, I'm not sure that someone could encode his responses to the opponent into memory in such detail, and recall those details as episodic (explicit) memories at age 4, 8, or today.

(Skills are first encoded in explicit memory in the learning phase, but then are transferred to implicit memory through practice.) Declarative Memory (Explicit Memory) and Procedural Memory (Implicit Memory) - Types of Memory - The Human Memory
 

Tez3

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Well, I'm not so sure now. Just did a bit of checking ...
Studies have suggested that under stress, negative events are encoded with more detail. Here's one:
Encoding negative events under stress: high subjective arousal is related to accurate emotional memory despite misinformation exposure. - PubMed - NCBI
But that's just one study -- not definitive yet, I think.
The role of emotion in memory | About memory

Anyway, I'm not sure that the event is depicted as a stressful event, anyway. It sounds as if the fighter (at age 4) acted in a cold and calculating manner, not unlike Sherlock Holmes as played by Downey, so stress might not have played a part in his responses to the event.

The story suggests that the fighter can recall his techniques in detail. But if, at age 4, he were as responsive and skilled as he suggests, his responses may have derived from implicit (procedural) memory: it's likely that he would have just reacted, and in his story, he wrote that he reacted "instinctively," no doubt due to his extensive training at the oak tree. Under such conditions, I'm not sure that someone could encode his responses to the opponent into memory in such detail, and recall those details as episodic (explicit) memories at age 4, 8, or today.

(Skills are first encoded in explicit memory in the learning phase, but then are transferred to implicit memory through practice.) Declarative Memory (Explicit Memory) and Procedural Memory (Implicit Memory) - Types of Memory - The Human Memory


or it could just be BS.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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Since this thread is really off topic anyway, might as well go into the memory. It is likely a flashbulb memory. Those are incredibly realistic/vivid, and almost never fully (or at all) accurate. Most studies on it were done after 9/11, if you have any interest in finding more about it, since I'm not an expert on the subject
 
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Tez3

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Well, we have more than just a memory thing don't we? We have to work out the likelihood of a four year old child taking on two twelve year olds and beating them. Based on my considerable knowledge of four year AND twelve year olds the likelihood is extremely small to nil. Now, a gang of four year olds could do it if they worked it out or were told how to but the chances of a single, a smallish ( writer's own description) defeating two almost teenagers who as twins are co-ordinated to work together and have a long history of bullying would be very small.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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You're underestimating how off falshbulb memories can be. It's not something were the memory is slightly off, you could imagine a scenario that never happened, and be 100% convinced that it did. So yes, it is just a memory thing
 

drop bear

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Since this thread is really off topic anyway, might as well go into the memory. It is likely a flashbulb memory. Those are incredibly realistic/vivid, and almost never fully (or at all) accurate. Most studies on it were done after 9/11, if you have any interest in finding more about it, since I'm not an expert on the subject

You realise that would basically throw any witness testimony out the window.
 
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