Indian girl uses Karate to defend herself. Is Karate an effective martial art for self defense?

[ballen0351]

This of course is your opinion.

Martial Talk is very well monitored. Members are allowed to have their opinion on a wide variety of topics as long as they stay within the site rules.

Even though you can have an opinion whether good or bad the fact is you have not been here long enough to render the statement you did, "just sayin"

I agree with him. Have I been here long enough? Just sayin

 

[ballen0351]

Really?

yeah you post your ignorant opinion as if it's fact

 

[oftheherd1]

Kenpo. We just steal grappling stuff.

Perhaps that explains your apparent disdain for grappling arts.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Perhaps that explains your apparent disdain for grappling arts.

Apparent disdain? let me make it clearer for you, BJJ against more that one person is suicide, Karate against multiple opponents is a typical street fight. Sorry if it only looked like I thought, taking people to the ground and rolling around seemed like a bad idea. That being said, you still need to know the escapes.

 

[oftheherd1]

Apparent disdain? let me make it clearer for you, BJJ against more that one person is suicide, Karate against multiple opponents is a typical street fight. Sorry if it only looked like I thought, taking people to the ground and rolling around seemed like a bad idea. That being said, you still need to know the escapes.

It occurs to me we are probably talking apples and oranges here. My fault no doubt. You are talking about ground fighting arts and mention BJJ, and I am talking about grappling arts such as the art I studied, Hapkido. We learn ground fighting techniques at higher levels, but more with the intent of getting back on our feet as quickly as possible. We don't prefer to be on the ground, but prefer to defend while on our feet, using grappling moves, and we can work against more than one opponent as can many other MA, but it isn't preferred by us any more than most martial arts.

A couple of things occur to me though, that might be worthy of discussion in this thread. First, I really know little about BJJ. However, do they really intend to do most of their fighting on the ground, or is that just their way of doing damage before getting back up as quickly as possible to take on any other possible attackers? Is Karate or TKD ineffective because they don't have ground fighting, or more effective because they employ blocks, strikes and kicks that make it more dangerous to try to take a them to the ground?

 

[Touch Of Death]

It occurs to me we are probably talking apples and oranges here. My fault no doubt. You are talking about ground fighting arts and mention BJJ, and I am talking about grappling arts such as the art I studied, Hapkido. We learn ground fighting techniques at higher levels, but more with the intent of getting back on our feet as quickly as possible. We don't prefer to be on the ground, but prefer to defend while on our feet, using grappling moves, and we can work against more than one opponent as can many other MA, but it isn't preferred by us any more than most martial arts.

A couple of things occur to me though, that might be worthy of discussion in this thread. First, I really know little about BJJ. However, do they really intend to do most of their fighting on the ground, or is that just their way of doing damage before getting back up as quickly as possible to take on any other possible attackers? Is Karate or TKD ineffective because they don't have ground fighting, or more effective because they employ blocks, strikes and kicks that make it more dangerous to try to take a them to the ground?

Hapkido is cool, and BJJ is a sport, and a dueling art. Dueling arts are nice, but there is an assumption it is, and will always be, one on one.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Hapkido is typically described as Korean Karate; so, it is a karate art that has a strong anti-grappling feel. You call what you do, grappling, I call Hapkido, anti-grappling; so, let's call the whole thing off.

 

[Touch Of Death]

So, in my mind, attacks are grappling, escapes are anti-grappling. You need to know the attacks before you can escape one of those pesky buggars; so, if you want to know how to fight, grappling training is a must, but it is not the end all be all of fighting.

 

[seasoned]

I agree with him. Have I been here long enough? Just sayin

You been here long enough to know better. "just sayin".

 

[Tez3]

Anyway, there's one young lady in India who will tell you that absolutely karate is good for self defence. I for one agree with her and am very pleased she's fine after what must have been a very scary experience which could have been so much worst.
Now all we have to do is lobby the Indian government to stop tribal councils issuing orders for girls and women to be gang raped for such offences as falling in love, being the sister of a man who fell in love with the wrong women, not being able to pay fines etc.
Yep that's political but puts things into perspective though doesn't it.

 

[ballen0351]

You been here long enough to know better. "just sayin".

what should I "know better" lol

 

[oftheherd1]

Hapkido is cool, and BJJ is a sport, and a dueling art. Dueling arts are nice, but there is an assumption it is, and will always be, one on one.

OK if so. As I said, I really know nothing about BJJ.

Hapkido is typically described as Korean Karate; so, it is a karate art that has a strong anti-grappling feel. You call what you do, grappling, I call Hapkido, anti-grappling; so, let's call the whole thing off.

I am totally unaware of that. Korea is where I studied and earned my 1st and 2nd dan. I call Hapkido a grappling art simply to be understand by most people here. Where I studied, we simply called Hapkido one thing; Hapkido.

So, in my mind, attacks are grappling, escapes are anti-grappling. You need to know the attacks before you can escape one of those pesky buggars; so, if you want to know how to fight, grappling training is a must, but it is not the end all be all of fighting.

Your are untitled to your beliefs. But I cannot agree as I understand attacks and defenses, and grappling.

 

[drop bear]

yeah you post your ignorant opinion as if it's fact

No when i post a fact i add a source. That is how you tell the difference.

 

[oftheherd1]

Anyway, there's one young lady in India who will tell you that absolutely karate is good for self defence. I for one agree with her and am very pleased she's fine after what must have been a very scary experience which could have been so much worst.
Now all we have to do is lobby the Indian government to stop tribal councils issuing orders for girls and women to be gang raped for such offences as falling in love, being the sister of a man who fell in love with the wrong women, not being able to pay fines etc.
Yep that's political but puts things into perspective though doesn't it.

Oh, yeah, that was what this thread started out to be wasn't it; a celebration of a wonderful young lady, learning how, and actually having the confidence and ability to defend herself. Again, good on her! I hope she continues to have success in life,

 

[drop bear]

By the way. Either grappling or anti grappling. Escapes are generally the hardest to pull of and take the most time to get right.

And again why i would advise if you do grappling for self defence you realy want to learn a comprehensive system and then work at it.

 

[aedrasteia]

Anyway, there's one young lady in India who will tell you that absolutely karate is good for self defence. I for one agree with her and am very pleased she's fine after what must have been a very scary experience which could have been so much worst.
Now all we have to do is lobby the Indian government to stop tribal councils issuing orders for girls and women to be gang raped for such offences as falling in love, being the sister of a man who fell in love with the wrong women, not being able to pay fines etc.
Yep that's political but puts things into perspective though doesn't it.

Ah Tez, thank you and a deep gassho. I often despair of having conversations about SD4W, here on forums, even MT or even F2F - so many dissolve into what this thread became very early: a circular debate that goes nowhere in terms of realistic, thoughtful discussions _grounded in real experience_.

The experience of girls/women disappears Once again. I Re-read this thread and see where we disappear or vanish. And there are no questions about what life is like for girls/women in s. asia (India, Pakistan etc.) From the speed of the diversion into the predictable argument and the complete absence of any interest (visible and expressed here) in daily life for girls/women in the region, I'm reminded again of how discouraging these threads usually become.

And then there is this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/hundreds-protest-release-of-new-delhi-rapist/2015/12/20/

NEW DELHI — Hundreds of demonstrators gathered in the heart of the Indian capital on Sunday to protest the release of the man who as a juvenile was convicted of raping a young woman in a moving bus three years ago.

Authorities released the rapist from the correctional home where he spent the past three years, but he did not walk free. He was shifted to a rehabilitation home run by a nonprofit group where, an official said, he will undergo psychological rehabilitation, be given sewing work and be monitored.


"The youth was among six males who brutally gang-raped the 23-year-old woman and threw her out of the bus. The victim died of her severe injuries a few days later. Of the other five men who were sent to jail, one man hanged himself in his cell in 2013. The other four were sentenced to death. They have appealed the verdicts.

But the case of the juvenile rapist, who is now 20, has led many Indians to question whether the law has let him get away too easily because of his age.

[India gang rapes persist despite growing awareness of women’s rights]"

And I wish everyone posting on this thread would watch this: India's Daughter

I recognize and thank the young Indian/Pakistani women who have shared their stories and experience with me in classes. some are remaining here, some are returning to their countries to live and work and fight with every tool they have to stop this horror and change the deeply rooted mind-set that feeds it. Their courage is enormous. I promised them I would remember and tell.
They deserve that, at the very least.

So deep thanks to Tez, as ever.

 

[Skullpunch]

Karate is a self defence art, it's techniques are for defending yourself, sorry if I've repeated myself but it needs to be emphasised. Competent in karate is being able to defend yourself, do you get it yet? it's not 'competent' to be able to compete in grappling competitions, it's enough to get you out of bad situations.

Everyone "gets it" just fine, as everyone has heard this argument ad nauseum over the years and it has the same holes now that it's always had. The first is that it damn well is competent to be able to compete in grappling competitions because if you can do that then you can handle yourself that much more easily against untrained thugs on the street - or worse yet someone who has a couple of years of competitive wrestling under their belt - someone you may not be able to fight off if all you have are very basic self defense grappling skills.

The second is that self defense vs. competition is not completely binary. For example, if an international karate champion enters an early UFC and can't even defend against a muscled-in guillotine from a guy that has the grappling ability of a bjj white belt, that doesn't bode well for his ability to grapple altogether and I seriously doubt that changing this scenario into a self defense situation would unlock grappling abilities that we can't see because it was in the cage.

Your comment about seeing competent grapplers in one day makes little sense, you can't train people to be competent in one day.

Never said you could. Speaking of having to repeat oneself, what I was actually saying is that I could SEE competent grapplers my first day of training, as in, I could tell after one day of training that there were competent grapplers in the class. Actually I could tell in about 10 minutes. I never once said or even implied that the guys who were competent became competent in one day. I'm calling into question the idea that if you train karate for 5 years you're still too much of an inexperienced noob to be able to see it's grappling prowess, whereas it takes one day in the arts where we don't have to have this debate - you still haven't really responded to this, instead choosing to go off on another vaguely related tangent and starting a different debate altogether (self-defense vs. competition, as opposed to the actual subject I brought up).

 

[ballen0351]

. I'm calling into question the idea that if you train karate for 5 years you're still too much of an inexperienced noob to be able to see it's grappling prowess,

Why would I want to grapple at all? If I have 5 years of training in Karate I have far more useful tools in my memory banks that I dont need or want to grapple with anyone.

 

[drop bear]

Why would I want to grapple at all? If I have 5 years of training in Karate I have far more useful tools in my memory banks that I dont need or want to grapple with anyone.

Do you know the saying "a fool who knows he is a fool is wiser than a wise man?"

This suggests that you will be better if you can be humble and accept you don't have all the answers.

 

[ballen0351]

Do you know the saying "a fool who knows he is a fool is wiser than a wise man?"

This suggests that you will be better if you can be humble and accept you don't have all the answers.

lol says the guy that keeps spouting off that Karate has no grappling.

However I was asking him a question I obviously dont have the answer, if I did I wouldn't have asked him the question