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theletch1

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But what of those that arnt frauds or fakes that have branched off or started teaching there own style or at least a combination of the styles theyve learnt.

I'm in this situation right now and can say that I am very impressed with this particular style of teaching and the flexibility that it allows me. My instructor has earned black belts in two styles of kenpo and has blended them together to make one particular style. However, he continually pushes us to adapt the techniques to what ever flows best for the individual. Once you learn a particular technique the way he wants it done he'll say, "OK, start the move and then just let it flow." If it works on the street then it's the kind of stuff we like to see. I didn't start MA for the old style traditions, although I enjoy the history and the spritual side of them. I began MA for defense of myself and my family. There are no grand claims to being the 624th great grand swami or no touch death touch moves. Just, this base has worked for a couple thousand years so let's start there and see what we can add to it to make it work better for you.

I agree that there is a place for the VERY traditional as well as the more flexible. That's what I like about this forum. Seems to be a place for everyone, even rookies like me.

respecfully,
theletch1:asian:
 

James Kovacich

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Originally posted by theletch1
I'm in this situation right now and can say that I am very impressed with this particular style of teaching and the flexibility that it allows me. My instructor has earned black belts in two styles of kenpo and has blended them together to make one particular style. However, he continually pushes us to adapt the techniques to what ever flows best for the individual. Once you learn a particular technique the way he wants it done he'll say, "OK, start the move and then just let it flow." If it works on the street then it's the kind of stuff we like to see. I didn't start MA for the old style traditions, although I enjoy the history and the spritual side of them. I began MA for defense of myself and my family. There are no grand claims to being the 624th great grand swami or no touch death touch moves. Just, this base has worked for a couple thousand years so let's start there and see what we can add to it to make it work better for you.

I agree that there is a place for the VERY traditional as well as the more flexible. That's what I like about this forum. Seems to be a place for everyone, even rookies like me.

respecfully,
theletch1:asian:

Thats similar to a JKD mentality in the sense that in the end there is no technique. Thats what they say anyway. But actually the techniques are very much present. But in your mind you "just do" compared to "think and do".
 
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theletch1

theletch1

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Exactly:D

Thanks, I thought for sure I'd catch a bunch of flak about not being a "true" kenpoist.
 

Johnathan Napalm

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The shortcoming inherented in tournaments is obvious. But everyone jumps on the bandwagon to piss on tournys, including those who have never fought in one in their whole life time. :rolleyes:

Tournament competition is a useful training experience. None of you who "play" inside the safety of your dojangs/dojos know what an adrenaline rush can impact your ability to function. Tournament gives young fighters the very few chances they have to experience the adrenaline rush (and how to deal with it) and the opportunity to engage unknown opponents.

Everybody knows there are artificial rules in tournys, and so forth and so forth. Yesterday's news. THere are ways to train to compensate for that. Throwing out tournys altogether, is like throwing out the baby with the water.
 
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A.R.K.

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theletch1,

My instructor has earned black belts in two styles of kenpo and has blended them together to make one particular style. However, he continually pushes us to adapt the techniques to what ever flows best for the individual

I very much agree with this philosophy and have to a great degree adopted it into my teaching. I thing it wise as an instructor to teach several methods for a particular assault and then find out what works the very best for them and concentrate on it. I feel my job as an instructor is not to teach you what I can do but to teach you what you can do.

JN,

But everyone jumps on the bandwagon to piss on tournys, including those who have never fought in one in their whole life time.

I don't think anyone is pissing on tournaments or competitions so much as addressing there proper place. They may have a place in training, that can be a subject for debate. And in some regards they may be as real as can be safetly achieved given having a referee and rules. But, anything that has a referee, rules or protective equipment is not reality based and can give the participant a false sense of security when it comes to a real situation.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I appreciate and respect the tournament/competition particiapant/champion...but I am unimpressed. I AM impressed with a 120 lbs house wife that successfully defends herself from a rapist. That is real and means quite a bit more than a ribbon or trophy IMHO.
 

Johnathan Napalm

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Giving the 120 lb housewife the false sense of security that she can defeat a 250 cirminally insane psychopatic socialpath, is criminal.
 
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A.R.K.

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Giving the 120 lb housewife the false sense of security that she can defeat a 250 cirminally insane psychopatic socialpath, is criminal.

So your saying a woman is not capable of defending herself against a man?
 

Johnathan Napalm

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No that is not what I am saying.

I am saying :

1. Most 120 lb person (man or woman) would have a very tough time defeating a 250lb criminal. For those who argue otherwise, next time when you go to a competition, ask to be matched against someone above your division. And tell the organizers that they are simply being stupid to put this weight division scheme there in the first place. I am not saying you can't defeat someone bigger than you. But in the case of 120lb woman against a 250lb psychopath? That is like YOU going up against a Sumo wrestler! Fat Chance! :D Indeed!

2. Most MA instruction/lesson that the typical 120lb housewife get, IS NOT sufficient to equip her to defeat a 250lb criminal. I would laugh at those McDojo lessons focusing on throwing your attackers around.

3. Therefore, a lot of 120 lb housewives are being fooled by these McDojo operators.


It is criminal to sell them this false sense of security and the big lie that criminals are so stupid as to stand there and let you do all your neat tricks that you play around in the safety of your dojo.
 
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A.R.K.

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Well, lets take a good, hard look at what your saying;

Most 120 lb person (man or woman) would have a very tough time defeating a 250lb criminal. For those who argue otherwise, next time when you go to a competition, ask to be matched against someone above your division

Well here you are basing your opinon by rules of competition. Which are, as I and others have said is unrealistic. A 120 lbs women in a boxing match with a 250 lbs man probably wouldn't fare well. But that has rules, referee and protective equipment. Thats not real life my friend nor is it the meat of my comment.


But in the case of 120lb woman against a 250lb psychopath? That is like YOU going up against a Sumo wrestler

Really??? :rolleyes: I would take that bet. You see, your trapped into fighting the same fight mentality. If I were to fight a sumo wrestler....I wouldn't be wrestling him. Would I do well? Basing this fictional encounter with a real life event I would say better than average :D Why? Well probably because I am 6' and about 170 lbs and the biggest enemy I have faced was 6'8 and weighed 380 lbs. He was a very violent and uncooperative felon and very intent on hurting me. One well placed knee spike and a shoulder lock persuaded him to discontinue his rude behavior. I don't have a big 'S' on my chest, but your fictional encounter doesn't cause me to lose sleep. I does reveal to me that you seemed to be trapped into a tournament mind set. I find this dangerous to yourself.

. Most MA instruction/lesson that the typical 120lb housewife get, IS NOT sufficient to equip her to defeat a 250lb criminal. I would laugh at those McDojo lessons focusing on throwing your attackers around.

I don't recall anyone mentioning McDojo training for our young lady.....

It is criminal to sell them this false sense of security and the big lie that criminals are so stupid as to stand there and let you do all your neat tricks that you play around in the safety of your dojo

Again, I don't think anyone has mentioned the method of training for our young lady. I don't have any 'neat' tricks nor do we teach on static, non-resisting targets. And since I have had a young female student, 5' tall defend herself MOST successfully against a would-be date rapist...AND since I work with a large number of female Deputies who reguarly are involved in uses-of-force against male inmates/prisoners and WIN I would have to consider your opinion as uninformed and perhaps a bit testosterone laden.

Given proper training a woman with her wits about her can protect herself from grievace harm. It does not, and should not take great strength to correctly utilize a technique or tactic that is appropriate to the situation.

Perhaps you should not put your limitations on others....it's not accurate or realistic to do so my friend.
 

Johnathan Napalm

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Riight. How typical.

More experienced fighters and masters would tell you that is the common fallacy of your average garden variety martial artist. Bill Wallace would tell you, that your assertion flies in the face of reality.

BTW, you love to claim credential. This is the internet. Claim is a dime a dozen. Proof is non-existence.

If you want to claim you win the argument, go right ahead. Proof is another thing. This is the internet. Pointless argument.
 

Johnathan Napalm

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"...Given proper training a woman with her wits about her can protect herself from grievace harm...."

Actually this is true. "...given PROPER TRAINING and wits..."
 
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A.R.K.

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More experienced fighters and masters would tell you that is the common fallacy of your average garden variety martial artist.

And your documentation to back up this claim would be....:rolleyes:

Bill Wallace would tell you, that your assertion flies in the face of reality.

Really??? I'll ask him when I see him next month.

you love to claim credential.

Nope just stating the obvious. And it's obvious your trapped into inside-the-box linear thinking.

If you want to claim you win the argument, go right ahead.

Why? Do you feel that you lost the 'argument'. I thought we were posting opinions and real life incidents. See...that competition mind set creeping up on you again.

Bottome line, a women need not drop and spread eagle because a man makes a move on her. As I've said, I know a woman can prevail. You mentioned small men as well. Hmm, I suppose all those small oriental guys should give up training as well since it's pretty much a gimmee they don't stand a chance against a larger opponent.

Seems I remember something along the lines of 'the bigger they are the harder they fall'. :D

Hey, have yourself a nice day.
 
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Disco

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JN, you are correct when you state that it is criminal to give false confidence.

MRJ, you are also correct with the tournament mind set.

JN, just remember that for many years the martial arts had no tournaments.

And BOTH of you HIT the nail on the head with the statement of PROPER TRAINING. This to me is the major problem within the arts today.
 

James Kovacich

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Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
Giving the 120 lb housewife the false sense of security that she can defeat a 250 cirminally insane psychopatic socialpath, is criminal.

So you think she has NO chance?
 

James Kovacich

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Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
No that is not what I am saying.

I am saying :

1. Most 120 lb person (man or woman) would have a very tough time defeating a 250lb criminal. For those who argue otherwise, next time when you go to a competition, ask to be matched against someone above your division. And tell the organizers that they are simply being stupid to put this weight division scheme there in the first place. I am not saying you can't defeat someone bigger than you. But in the case of 120lb woman against a 250lb psychopath? That is like YOU going up against a Sumo wrestler! Fat Chance! :D Indeed!

2. Most MA instruction/lesson that the typical 120lb housewife get, IS NOT sufficient to equip her to defeat a 250lb criminal. I would laugh at those McDojo lessons focusing on throwing your attackers around.

3. Therefore, a lot of 120 lb housewives are being fooled by these McDojo operators.


It is criminal to sell them this false sense of security and the big lie that criminals are so stupid as to stand there and let you do all your neat tricks that you play around in the safety of your dojo.

In a 'REAL" situation, the 120 lb. woman would not need to "DEFEAT" the 250 LB. attacker. "ALL" she needs to do is "ESCAPE".

My daughter is 4'10" and she packs a punch along with a decent knowledge of the "VITAL" targets and is smart enough to use a stick if possible. No rules, just escape and live!

:asian:
 
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RyuShiKan

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Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
The shortcoming inherented in tournaments is obvious. But everyone jumps on the bandwagon to piss on tournys, including those who have never fought in one in their whole life time. :rolleyes:

I have been in and judged plenty of tournaments both here and the US.


Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
Tournament competition is a useful training experience. None of you who "play" inside the safety of your dojangs/dojos know what an adrenaline rush can impact your ability to function.

Considering we spar full contact with bogu gear in my dojo and most of the tournaments outside my dojo are tippy-tap I dont get much of a rush.


Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm

Everybody knows there are artificial rules in tournys, and so forth and so forth. Yesterday's news. THere are ways to train to compensate for that. Throwing out tournys altogether, is like throwing out the baby with the water.

People often get caught up in training only for tournaments and neglect real
techniques. You will fight the way you train.




Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
Giving the 120 lb housewife the false sense of security that she can defeat a 250 cirminally insane psychopatic socialpath, is criminal.


Most grown men, trained or untrained couldnt subdue such an adversary either.
 
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