Il Lo vs. Il Rho

dancingalone

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Just idle curiosity after chatting with one of my students, a former TSDist. Why is the first (second) Chil Sung form referenced as 'Il Lo' rather than 'Il Rho'? The second (first) Chil Sung hyung is called Ee Rho.

If someone can explain this idiosyncrasy to me, I'd appreciate it.
 

Kaygee

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Just idle curiosity after chatting with one of my students, a former TSDist. Why is the first (second) Chil Sung form referenced as 'Il Lo' rather than 'Il Rho'? The second (first) Chil Sung hyung is called Ee Rho.

If someone can explain this idiosyncrasy to me, I'd appreciate it.

This is not how it is in my kwan. We call them Chil Sung Il Lo, Chil Sung Ee Lo, Chil Sung Sam Lo, Chil Sung Sa Lo, etc.
 
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dancingalone

dancingalone

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This is not how it is in my kwan. We call them Chil Sung Il Lo, Chil Sung Ee Lo, Chil Sung Sam Lo, Chil Sung Sa Lo, etc.

Do you mind sharing which group/GM you study with?
 

Kaygee

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Do you mind sharing which group/GM you study with?

Exceuse my ignorance, but group/GM?

Do you mean:
Group:Traditional Tang Soo International
GM: Grand Master Frederick Scott

Or am I answering your question incorrectly?
 
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dancingalone

dancingalone

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Exceuse my ignorance, but group/GM?

Do you mean:
Group:Traditional Tang Soo International
GM: Grand Master Frederick Scott

Or am I answering your question incorrectly?

Yep. That's exactly what I meant. Not all TSD groups practice the Chil Sung patterns, so it is interesting to know first which groups do, and then secondly which ones use your particular terminology.

Thanks.
 

JWLuiza

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My understanding is the pronunciation by Koreans is the same but the romanization is different. The MDK uses Il Ro I believe for their romanization.
 

Kaygee

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My understanding is the pronunciation by Koreans is the same but the romanization is different. The MDK uses Il Ro I believe for their romanization.

My style is MDK and we use Il Lo....

Who knows anymore....there are so many subtle differences and such, that's it's nearly impossible to find any consistency anymore!
 
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dancingalone

dancingalone

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My understanding is the pronunciation by Koreans is the same but the romanization is different. The MDK uses Il Ro I believe for their romanization.

Hmm, it's somewhat odd that someone would use both spellings then (and pronunciations too). This is a small American school though.
 

cdunn

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Hmm, it's somewhat odd that someone would use both spellings then (and pronunciations too). This is a small American school though.

Two complicating factors here:

First, the Korean consonent rieul is positioned about half way between how an english speaker pronounces L and R - We actually have an exceedingly hard time pronouncing it correctly, because our natural instinct is to shade it in one direction or the other. Now, probably because we commonly shade the riuel in "il" towards the L, this smears over our pronunciation of the rieul in lo/ro towards the L (일 로) , a factor which is not present in the Ee Lo (이 로) pronunciation.

Further, In a small school, depending on where and how the initial teachers of the school learned the form, they may not have parsed the name of the form; some hyung have names that don't translate directly meaningfully into english (ex: Kong Song Koon), and in I suspect that the thought behind the name doesn't always get passed down along American lines. Sadly, not everyone is curious enough to look - Do they even know that it's the same word (Path/Road)?

South Korean government standardized the romanization of rieul to L in 2000, but that's late in the game and gets ignored a lot.

Also, read the numbers. Some schools may teach Chil Sung Ee Lo before Chil Sung Il Lo, but they are named "Seven Star(Big Dipper) First Path", "Seven Star Second Path", "Seven Star Third Path", etc, etc.
 
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Kaygee

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Some schools may teach Chil Sung Ee Lo before Chil Sung Il Lo, but they are named "Seven Star(Big Dipper) First Path", "Seven Star Second Path", "Seven Star Third Path", etc, etc.

My school teaches students Chil Sung Ee Lo before teaching Chil Sung Il Lo....
Let's face it...Chil Sung Ee Lo is basically just an odd Pyung Ahn form and easier for beginners to learn.
I love Chil Sung Il Lo though....it's a great warm up or cool down form!
 

JWLuiza

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Kaygee you do MDK style (MDK as an adjective) THE Moo Duk Kwan (as a noun), which your GM was once a member of uses Il Ro.
 
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