How to escape a wrist lock

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futsaowingchun

futsaowingchun

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What do you intend to achieve? In other words, what's your finish move?

You push your opponent away, he will come back. How many times do you want to repeat the same process?

In another forum, people try to put anti-Taiji label on me because I asked the same question.

I strongly believe one should keep his friend close but enemy closer.
I can finish him by fling him into the wall,into tree,a car,out of a window,into another person using the enviroment or to create and escapre route.. then game is up to you but can you do it?
 

Bill Mattocks

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We have heard this comment many times in the forum. If your opponent grab on your wrist, you use the other free hand to punch on his face.

What if your opponent use right hand to grab on your right wrist, and pull your right arm to your left to cause your body to rotate to your left? Your left punch will require your body to rotate to your right. But your opponent's pulling will make your body to rotate to the opposite direction. Of course you can borrow your opponent's pulling, and counter with a left spin back fist. But you have to expose your back to your opponent.

IMO, if your opponent cannot achieve this, he should not grab on your wrist in the first place.
Negative. If someone grabs your wrist and pulls, you go into that motion, rushing towards them immediately. That way you do not rotate your punching arm away from them. Your second step into them should place your punching arm forward and in great position to blast them. There cannot be a tug of war over the grabbed arm. No one who grabs and pulls expects anything except resistance. Give them the opposite.
 

caped crusader

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Everyone talks of moving this way and that way...Tai sabaki in a Dojo is one thing but some people are just physically strong and have a good grip.
Try all the sabaki on a construction worker with real World strength in his hands and forearms.
Not so easy.
 

wckf92

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Everyone talks of moving this way and that way...Tai sabaki in a Dojo is one thing but some people are just physically strong and have a good grip.
Try all the sabaki on a construction worker with real World strength in his hands and forearms.
Not so easy.

Ok...guess I'll be the one to ask: what is tai sabaki???
 

Bill Mattocks

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Everyone talks of moving this way and that way...Tai sabaki in a Dojo is one thing but some people are just physically strong and have a good grip.
Try all the sabaki on a construction worker with real World strength in his hands and forearms.
Not so easy.
Agreed. Sometimes extra is required. Push forward into the guy. Stomp a foot. Head butt. People tend to grab with their strong hand. If they grab straight across and you're both righties, step in and smash his face. Keep it going, run right over the top of him. People who grab expect you to pull back. Don't. Make a kiss noise. Scream or spit in his face. Stomp your foot, make him look down. Throw that empi straight into his chest and sink it. Blow his jaw off with an uppercut. Whatever presents itself.

Also, don't stop to think. Act. Instantly. The more time he has, the worse it is for you.
 

geezer

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Everyone talks of moving this way and that way...Tai sabaki in a Dojo is one thing but some people are just physically strong and have a good grip.
Try all the sabaki on a construction worker with real World strength in his hands and forearms.
Not so easy.
OK, training in a Chinese martial art, I also had to look up "tai sabaki" - a Japanese term. For the other practitioner of non-Japanese arts, it seems to roughly translate to "outside shift" or moving offline, and in arts like Aikido is used to "harmonize" rather than resist an opponent's force.

OK that kinda-sorta relates to the "WT" Wing Chun response to a hard grab and yank across center intending to turn you so that the free arm can't come into play as posited by John Wang in his post #20 above. We respond by stepping forward and across with the pulling force, stepping with the leg on the same side as we are being pulled using "falling leaf step.

This:
1. Moves us closer (inside) and across (offline) and...
2. Relieves the pressure of the pull so that you are not spun around and continue to face your opponent's center so you can hit them straight away with the free-hand.

Note: The timing, reflexes to accomplish this step require a good deal of practice, but when you do it right it is not negated by a strong grip and hard pull by a "construction worker with real-world strength". Heck those are precisely the people in your group that you want to train with!

BTW- a nod here to Bill Mattocks who, it seems to me, already said pretty much the same thing (from a karate perspective) above. :)
 
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wckf92

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Agreed. Sometimes extra is required. Push forward into the guy. Stomp a foot. Head butt. People tend to grab with their strong hand. If they grab straight across and you're both righties, step in and smash his face. Keep it going, run right over the top of him. People who grab expect you to pull back. Don't. Make a kiss noise. Scream or spit in his face. Stomp your foot, make him look down. Throw that empi straight into his chest and sink it. Blow his jaw off with an uppercut. Whatever presents itself.

Also, don't stop to think. Act. Instantly. The more time he has, the worse it is for you.

Yup. Get inside his OODA loop and F him up.
 

Bill Mattocks

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Everyone talks of moving this way and that way...Tai sabaki in a Dojo is one thing but some people are just physically strong and have a good grip.
Try all the sabaki on a construction worker with real World strength in his hands and forearms.
Not

Yup. Get inside his OODA loop and F him up.
People who grab and hold tend to be drunk, bullies, or inexperienced fighters in my experience. First, they don't know what to do next. They want to run their mouths after grabbing you. They don't think it's a fight yet.

Mistake. Grabbing me doesn't require explanation or discussion. Grab me and you get all I got, instantly, now. Full throttle "I'm going to end you," right up close and personal. I'm in their grill that second and they WILL let go when I nukite their eyeballs 2 knuckles deep.

I don't want to chit chat. I want that hand off me. Now.
 

geezer

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People who grab and hold tend to be drunk, bullies, or inexperienced fighters in my experience....

I don't want to chit chat. I want that hand off me. Now.
So if it's your drunk uncle Bob, You can respond the same way, but just strike his wrist, hard ....instead of punching him in the jaw. Still works and you haven't messed up your family BBQ.

BTW in WC/WT that's called "tut sau" or "freeing hand".
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Push forward into the guy.
You may need at least a 90 degree angle.

If A pulls B toward the northwest direction, B will need to move toward the northeast direction. In other words, B has to cut in front of A. This will require that B has to respond very fast. The moment that B's body starts to spin, it's too late.
 

wckf92

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You may need at least a 90 degree angle.

If A pulls B toward the northwest direction, B will need to move toward the northeast direction. In other words, B has to cut in front of A. This will require that B has to respond very fast. The moment that B's body starts to spin, it's too late.

You're forgetting that wing chun (as do most martial arts) has this nifty thing called footwork.
 

Bill Mattocks

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So if it's your drunk uncle Bob, You can respond the same way, but just strike his wrist, hard ....instead of punching him in the jaw. Still works and you haven't messed up your family BBQ.

BTW in WC/WT that's called "tut sau" or "freeing hand".
My friends and relatives know better. But yeah, I get it.
 

Bill Mattocks

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You may need at least a 90 degree angle.

If A pulls B toward the northwest direction, B will need to move toward the northeast direction. In other words, B has to cut in front of A. This will require that B has to respond very fast. The moment that B's body starts to spin, it's too late.
Too much math. Hulk smash.
 

geezer

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You may need at least a 90 degree angle.

If A pulls B toward the northwest direction, B will need to move toward the northeast direction. In other words, B has to cut in front of A. This will require supposethat B has to respond very fast. The moment that B's body starts to spin, it's too late.
Not exactly. We don't move at 90簞 to the direction we are being pulled. We go with the pull, but "cut the corner" moving towards our opponent.

So if he is to our N. and he pulls across to the W, we step NW. ...moving with the pull and forwards towards our opponent.



Or look at it this way: A grabs your left hand and pulls across to his left (your right) to rotate you so he can punch you with his right.

The trick is to take a deep step diagonally forward and across with your right foot (the same side as you are bing pulled) so you do not rotate or cross your feet.

Basically, you relax, allowing your arm to extend and use the force of his pull to power your step --like being hauled by a rope. And you have to take a big step, deeply bending your front knee to absorb a forceful pull ...putting you into a deep front stance (looking like a karateka's zenkutsu dachi).

In WT we call this "falling leaf step," and the atypical front-weighted stance is a "reverse stance" since it is opposite to our normal back-weighted stance. From this position you punch, pivoting on your feet back to face your opponent's center, recovering your normal WT/WC back weighted position as you strike.
 
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Bill Mattocks

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I forgot one of my favorite responses. Free hand slap to the ear of the person grabbing you. Use your body as the whip, his hold as the fulcrum you pivot on. He will let go when you pop that eardrum with your palm. Then break his everything.
 

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I forgot one of my favorite responses. Free hand slap to the ear of the person grabbing you. Use your body as the whip, his hold as the fulcrum you pivot on. He will let go when you pop that eardrum with your palm. Then break his everything.
You probably aren't going to actually pop the eardrum. Doesn't mean it doesn't hurt though, which is what really matters at that point.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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So if he is to our N. and he pulls across to the W, we step NW. ...moving with the pull and forwards towards our opponent.
Please help me to understand this:

- A stands on B's N.
- Both have right sides forward.
- A uses right arm to pull B's right arm to the W.
- B moves toward NW.

Since A is at N, A will be exactly on B's blind sport (side door), how can B's left hand be able to punch A? What have I missed here?

Most of the time, when A pulls B, A will borrow the counter force to move A to the NE. So when B moves to NW while A is at NW, that will be exactly 90 degree different.

In the following clip, when A pulls B, B's back hand will have difficulty to punch A (because the angle).

Again, what have I missed here?

my_kou.gif
 
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