Wrist lock names?

[skribs]

At my school we number techniques instead of naming them. As someone who works in IT, I know that a name is a lot easier to remember than a number (i.e. "Skribs PC" is easier than 192.168.1.1). So I'm curious some of the names for the different wristlocks. I can post pictures of the locks I'm discussing later, but hopefully my description will be enough.

1. (I believe this is a "Z-lock"). Opponent's arm is bent in towards their chest, with their hand in a gooseneck pointing towards you. The joints on the wrist and the elbow make a Z-shape with their hand, forearm, and upper arm. From here, you can either pin the forearm and click up on the thumb to cause pain, or you can trap the hand and push down on the wrist to cause pain.
2. (I believe this is a "V-lock"). Opponent's arm is bent out away from their chest. Ideally their elbow would be tucked into their gut, and you twist on the pinky to apply torsion to their wrist. This can be done with your thumbs on the back of the hand pushing the pinky, with your thumbs on their palms so you can pull their hand over, or with one hand on the back of their wrist to trap it and the other hand pushing on the knuckles. Both the wrist and elbow make a V-shape, hence the name (I think).
3. (I believe this one is a "Figure-4 Lock"). In this one, you are usually off to the side of your opponent, facing behind them. If you're attacking their right arm, you'll have your right hand on their wrist, right elbow in their shoulder or bicep, and your left arm looped through their arm and grasping your bicep. You can now push their hand backwards and down, which is real uncomfortable on the elbow and shoulder.
4. (From this point on, I don't even have a guess as to the name). The fourth type of wrist-lock I want to bring up is kind of like a V-Lock in execution and a Figure-4 in location. In this lock, you have their arm curled up next to their head, with their elbow by their ear and their hand curled in near the shoulder. You can either press on the elbow or twist the wrist in, which will shift their weight back and cause them to tip over.
5. The fifth type of lock is more of a throw. It might be lumped in with #2, I'm not entirely sure. This is the type where you grab the back of their hand with your cross arm and twist their hand over. Then you circle around behind them to that side and use the twist of their wrist and pressure on their elbow to take them down.
6. The sixth type is where you use inward pressure on the wrist to straighten the arm and control them. This could be a push or a pull, but in both cases you push in on their hand and pull out on their wrist to lock their elbow, and then push or pull along that line to get them off balance.
7. Similar to #6, where you have an armbar and use pressure on the wrist to fully lock the arm and complete the submission.
8. Locks designed to push the hand backwards. A couple examples are where you trap your opponents hand against you and either twist or pull to bend the wrist or apply pressure to the nerves on the forearm. Another example is when you can get the opponent with is fingers jabbed into his ribs, elbow out (kind of like the "I'm a little teapot" dance) and then push up or back on his fingers to twist his wrist.
9. A lock that gets someone up on their tiptoes. Grab the opponents wrist and then use your bicep into their elbow to lock their elbow straight. This one gets them to give up any semblance of a stance real quick, and you can then push on their elbow to take them down. Alternatively, a similar lock from the other side (straight arm instead of cross arm) where you use your elbow into their tricep.

I have left out a lot of details about how these work, both individually and in-context. I'm not trying to get a better understanding of the technical aspects of these right now. I'm merely looking for help in what they're named.

 

[Tez3]

I've always known them as 'ouch', 'oh hell that hurts', 'arghhhhh' and ' oh dear lord that hurts like hell'.

 

[drop bear]

Take some photos.

 

[skribs]

Take some photos.

I'll try to get some this weekend. I could do the typing now is why I did without the photos.

 

[oftheherd1]

In the Hapkido I studied we also used numbers. I think some styles use Korean to say something to the effect "wrist lock defense throw number 6," or "side kick defense strike number 2."

 

[skribs]

In the Hapkido I studied we also used numbers. I think some styles use Korean to say something to the effect "wrist lock defense throw number 6," or "side kick defense strike number 2."

My Master is very big on numbering things in both Hapkido and Taekwondo. In addition to the forms, for example, we have to memorize punch and kick combinations by number. For 3rd Dan, that's 20 different combinations of kicks (which may be as simple as a kick and a few punches, or as complex as 3-4 spinning kicks with footwork). Then during the test he'll have us go "#5...#3...#17....#4...#20...#13...#8..." and we have to do the right combination.

I have a good memory so that part isn't hard for me. Doing the 300+ kicks to get through all the combos several times each...that part is hard for me.

 

[Buka]

We purposely don't have names for each individual one in law enforcement reports, at least in my particular circle. Just "control hold" or "arm lock" etc. Makes any court appearances easer.

We don't have names for all of them in American Karate either, just some. (No particular reason) For instance, the Z lock you mentioned, we call a Bent Elbow Wrist Lock. I think that's from Small Circle Jiu-Jitsu. Most of the ones I teach I call "The one where you grab the arm like this". I know, not exactly technical.

Most of the ones I have taught and can do in my sleep......I've never actually used in real life. But some I have.

The others you have listed are kind of hard to picture just from the written word alone. But I probably would have described them in the exact same way.

This looks interesting. I never thought of using a skeleton before. Not that I ever had access to one. Trying to picture one hanging in the dojo. Might be good to frighten the children. (I kid, I kid.) It would probably look the balls in a black gi, though.

 

[skribs]

We purposely don't have names for each individual one in law enforcement reports, at least in my particular circle. Just "control hold" or "arm lock" etc. Makes any court appearances easer.

We don't have names for all of them in American Karate either, just some. (No particular reason) For instance, the Z lock you mentioned, we call a Bent Elbow Wrist Lock. I think that's from Small Circle Jiu-Jitsu. Most of the ones I teach I call "The one where you grab the arm like this". I know, not exactly technical.

Most of the ones I have taught and can do in my sleep......I've never actually used in real life. But some I have.

The others you have listed are kind of hard to picture just from the written word alone. But I probably would have described them in the exact same way.

This looks interesting. I never thought of using a skeleton before. Not that I ever had access to one. Trying to picture one hanging in the dojo. Might be good to frighten the children. (I kid, I kid.) It would probably look the balls in a black gi, though.

This is why I say terminology is important. In court, I think "arm lock" or "control hold" is sufficient to describe what happened. Just like "I shot the perp with my service weapon" should be just as good as "I shot the perp with my .40-caliber S&W M&P duty pistol". The specific tool isn't the question, the action is. In this case, the hold is the action, and the specific hold is the tool.

But what you said about "the one where you grab the arm like this" is where terminology can be useful. If I say "Z lock" then I don't need to pantomime the grab while telling them which to do. Or if they're at an angle they can't see my arm while I'm demonstrating, but they know what "Z lock" is. And so forth.

Edit: I just learned a new way to apply that Z-lock from the video.

 

[oftheherd1]

This is why I say terminology is important. In court, I think "arm lock" or "control hold" is sufficient to describe what happened. Just like "I shot the perp with my service weapon" should be just as good as "I shot the perp with my .40-caliber S&W M&P duty pistol". The specific tool isn't the question, the action is. In this case, the hold is the action, and the specific hold is the tool.

But what you said about "the one where you grab the arm like this" is where terminology can be useful. If I say "Z lock" then I don't need to pantomime the grab while telling them which to do. Or if they're at an angle they can't see my arm while I'm demonstrating, but they know what "Z lock" is. And so forth.

Edit: I just learned a new way to apply that Z-lock from the video.

I just read this today and thought the same thing. In the Hapkido I studied we would have called it something like "3rd Dan black belt, 8 gup wrist grab #4." A rose by any other name.

 

[oftheherd1]

We purposely don't have names for each individual one in law enforcement reports, at least in my particular circle. Just "control hold" or "arm lock" etc. Makes any court appearances easer.

We don't have names for all of them in American Karate either, just some. (No particular reason) For instance, the Z lock you mentioned, we call a Bent Elbow Wrist Lock. I think that's from Small Circle Jiu-Jitsu. Most of the ones I teach I call "The one where you grab the arm like this". I know, not exactly technical.

Most of the ones I have taught and can do in my sleep......I've never actually used in real life. But some I have.

The others you have listed are kind of hard to picture just from the written word alone. But I probably would have described them in the exact same way.

This looks interesting. I never thought of using a skeleton before. Not that I ever had access to one. Trying to picture one hanging in the dojo. Might be good to frighten the children. (I kid, I kid.) It would probably look the balls in a black gi, though.

Is that a MA class or an anatomy school.

 

[Buka]

Edit: I just learned a new way to apply that Z-lock from the video.

That's awesome. What did you learn?

 

[Danny T]

I teach 5 Basic wrist locks (the control is the wrist) based on the relationship to the centerline.
S- straight toward the core
B-back (back away from the center line)
C-crossing the line
D-Downward
U-Upward
From that there are several variations of the base lock:
S1, S2, S3,..., B1, B2, B3,..., C1, C2...,etc.
And of course there is the Right and Left variations.

 

[skribs]

That's awesome. What did you learn?

The one where he had the wristlock with the wrist straight and then used the other hand to bend the elbow and/or keep it from going.

I tried it out later and it didn't seem to get the shock as effectively as the way we normally apply a z-lock (instead of the elbow, going for the wrist), but if their elbow is straight we can't get to it that way.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

CMA uses name such as:

1. Whale close the mouth - one hand hold on opponent's wrist, another hand push the back of his palm back.
2. Eagle claw break - One hand hold on the back of opponent's hand, another hand apply pressure on his wrist.
3. Windmill - use both hands to twist opponent's wrist.
4. Side windmill - hold on opponent's wrist, press forearm to apply pressure on wrist.
5. Devil's hand shake - start from hand shake, turn body and twist on opponent's wrist.
6. Chicken wing hold - Put opponent's elbow on your chest, hand press on the back of his palm, twist his wrist.
7. Meat grinder - hold opponent's arm under your shoulder, twist his palm,
8. Behind the back hold - put opponent's elbow on your chest, both hands press the back of his palm
9. ...

 

[JowGaWolf]

I've always known them as 'ouch', 'oh hell that hurts', 'arghhhhh' and ' oh dear lord that hurts like hell'.

lol.. you beat me too it. I just thinking.."hurt a little" and "hurt a lot" for the names

 

[skribs]

lol.. you beat me too it. I just thinking.."hurt a little" and "hurt a lot" for the names

With my Master we can't distinguish between them that way. With the students maybe, but it's different for every student.

CMA uses name such as:

1. Whale close the mouth - one hand hold on opponent's wrist, another hand push the back of his palm back.
2. Eagle claw break - One hand hold on the back of opponent's hand, another hand apply pressure on his wrist.
3. Windmill - use both hands to twist opponent's wrist.
4. Side windmill - hold on opponent's wrist, press forearm to apply pressure on wrist.
5. Devil's hand shake - start from hand shake, turn body and twist on opponent's wrist.
6. Chicken wing hold - Put opponent's elbow on your chest, hand press on the back of his palm, twist his wrist.
7. Meat grinder - hold opponent's arm under your shoulder, twist his palm,
8. Behind the back hold - put opponent's elbow on your chest, both hands press the back of his palm
9. ...

We do something similar. The Z-lock where you push down on the wrist we call "Motorcycle" because the motion is like revving a motorcycle. In Taekwondo we refer to some of the grips as "baseball bat" because it's how you hold a baseball bat.

And forgive me for this, but one of the motions we use in the handgrabs in Taekwondo involves putting your right hand up by their ear. The motion kind of looks like the salutes the Nazis used. So I used to tell my fellow students who were struggling with this motion "Heil Hitler." That always got a chuckle, and they got the move a lot better after that.
I stopped doing this when I became an official instructor.

But this is why I also want to learn the names for the locks. Because having a name makes it easier to remember for me.

 

[oftheherd1]

The one where he had the wristlock with the wrist straight and then used the other hand to bend the elbow and/or keep it from going.

I tried it out later and it didn't seem to get the shock as effectively as the way we normally apply a z-lock (instead of the elbow, going for the wrist), but if their elbow is straight we can't get to it that way.

When I learned that we would go for the elbow pretty much simultaneously with the wrist lock. There is a nerve in the elbow that greatly aids in performing that move. Also, the hand would be against the chest for more control. Have you learned that?

 

[skribs]

When I learned that we would go for the elbow pretty much simultaneously with the wrist lock. There is a nerve in the elbow that greatly aids in performing that move. Also, the hand would be against the chest for more control. Have you learned that?

We hit the nerve in the forearm instead of at the elbow. Maybe I just haven't learned it properly at the elbow, but I find it more effective in the forearm. The elbow did seem to make it less likely to fail, but the forearm seemed to get a stronger response. Again, this is with me having years practicing the forearm version and just trying out the elbow version.

And yes, I'm very familiar with how keeping the elbow bent (hand close to their chest) affects the wristlock.

 

[oftheherd1]

We hit the nerve in the forearm instead of at the elbow. Maybe I just haven't learned it properly at the elbow, but I find it more effective in the forearm. The elbow did seem to make it less likely to fail, but the forearm seemed to get a stronger response. Again, this is with me having years practicing the forearm version and just trying out the elbow version.

And yes, I'm very familiar with how keeping the elbow bent (hand close to their chest) affects the wristlock.

There are so many variations on most moves so as long as something works and we can do it correctly, that is what counts.

Ah, sorry, I wasn't specific. I meant keeping his hand/wrist close to our chest. It gives more control and generally cranks the wrist more.

 

[skribs]

There are so many variations on most moves so as long as something works and we can do it correctly, that is what counts.

Ah, sorry, I wasn't specific. I meant keeping his hand/wrist close to our chest. It gives more control and generally cranks the wrist more.

I'll try that when going for the elbow. Where is the pressure point on the elbow?