How "should" the system work?

[Jerry]

I think the ideal will vary by art. I know in mine there's a cirriculim: "know this material, move on to a new set of material", like subjects in school. In terms of internal rankings, I like this system.

In terms of external rankings; I wouldn't mind seeing something like you have in trades (apprentice, journeyman, master).

 

[47MartialMan]

I think the ideal will vary by art. I know in mine there's a cirriculim: "know this material, move on to a new set of material", like subjects in school. In terms of internal rankings, I like this system.

In terms of external rankings; I wouldn't mind seeing something like you have in trades (apprentice, journeyman, master).

Who regulates it on such a scale?

 

[Jerry]

In most trades, there is a guild.

 

[Corporal Hicks]

Maybe you could enforce the fact to students that the belt only implies knowledge, not technical skill?

Just an idea!:idunno:

 

[dsp921]

Belts/rank don't imply technical skill? Are you saying that all you have to do is explain the material to someone until they know all the moves and then give them a black belt? Without ever having to leave the chair or execute the techniques with some level of skill? Rank should be given when someone knows the material and can apply it. Without developing skill, what's the point of training?

 

[Corporal Hicks]

Belts/rank don't imply technical skill? Are you saying that all you have to do is explain the material to someone until they know all the moves and then give them a black belt? Without ever having to leave the chair or execute the techniques with some level of skill? Rank should be given when someone knows the material and can apply it. Without developing skill, what's the point of training?

No, what I meant to say was that, maybe the ranking system should be altered so that its not entirelly based on just technical skill or knowledge. There is a boundary, you can have a great technical fighter yet he knows nothing about that knowledge side of his art, therefore he has achieved the 'Martial' side of his art but knows nothing of the 'Art' side of his art.
I notice the fact that there seems to be some swaying that belts should only be awarded if somebody can be a great technical fighter, I dont believe that entirelly the case, as you said before both sides should be equally noticable. It seems that some would rather you achieve the belt through being a great fighter than being a Martial Artist. If you have achieved your belt through fighting skill only then that doesnt mean alot to me because I could not see the follow student in you who has strived to understand everything in the science of fighting but nothing else, unless your aim is to be a fighter, imo.

I totally agree that somebody should know the material and can apply it!

Or you could simply scrap belts altogether for adults. If you are real Martial Artist Imho then you would not care about your rank for it is not part of yourself, it does not make you who you are, you are as you as a person, wearing a belt may simply be there to increase your ego. I dont know, maybe I'm being harsh. Belts for motivation maybe. Dont mean to offend!

kind regards

 

[Andrew Green]

If you are real Martial Artist Imho then you would not care about your rank for it is not part of yourself, it does not make you who you are, you are as you as a person, wearing a belt may simply be there to increase your ego.

Hehehe... Ok, define "real martial artist"

I agee with you to a point, but the idea of a "real" martial artist is gonna be a very hard sell. Different people train for different reasons. I think the system is broken, and I have no interest in belts. But "real" is perhaps not the right word

 

[dsp921]

No, what I meant to say was that, maybe the ranking system should be altered so that its not entirelly based on just technical skill or knowledge. There is a boundary, you can have a great technical fighter yet he knows nothing about that knowledge side of his art, therefore he has achieved the 'Martial' side of his art but knows nothing of the 'Art' side of his art.
I notice the fact that there seems to be some swaying that belts should only be awarded if somebody can be a great technical fighter, I dont believe that entirelly the case, as you said before both sides should be equally noticable. It seems that some would rather you achieve the belt through being a great fighter than being a Martial Artist. If you have achieved your belt through fighting skill only then that doesnt mean alot to me because I could not see the follow student in you who has strived to understand everything in the science of fighting but nothing else, unless your aim is to be a fighter, imo.

I think what you are saying is that a martial artist should be well-rounded, and I agree. I don't think someone needs to be a "great" fighter to get rank, but they should be up to the standards of the school acknowledging the rank. Finding a school that has standards you find acceptable is what people need to worry about. If you visit a school and are not impressed by the higher rank students for whatever reason, go to the next school. You definitely should be able to fight, though, since that is what martial arts are about.

I totally agree that somebody should know the material and can apply it!

Absolutely, that's what it's all about.

Or you could simply scrap belts altogether for adults. If you are real Martial Artist Imho then you would not care about your rank for it is not part of yourself, it does not make you who you are, you are as you as a person, wearing a belt may simply be there to increase your ego. I dont know, maybe I'm being harsh. Belts for motivation maybe. Dont mean to offend!

kind regards

I understand this totally. If there is a problem with the credibility of ranks it is because people are more concerned about what the outside world thinks than they should. I, for one, train for me, I don't care what outsiders or even the guy next to me in class think. The only person I have to satisfy is myself, and the only person I care to impress at all is my instructor. He knows where I am and I know where I stand with him, simple enough.

 

[dsp921]

I think the system is broken

What do you mean by "system"?

 

[Corporal Hicks]

Hehehe... Ok, define "real martial artist"

I agee with you to a point, but the idea of a "real" martial artist is gonna be a very hard sell. Different people train for different reasons. I think the system is broken, and I have no interest in belts. But "real" is perhaps not the right word

Lol, I knew that was coming!
By "real" I guess I meant it as in you knew it in your heart, that you are a Martial Artist. You know thats what you are, nobody else can tell you that you are or not! It doesnt matter what belts or what anybody else thinks, you know you are not 'kidding' yourself. I would define real as when it becomes a part of you, and one thing I would say which might annoy some is that you understand the principles of your art. If you just fight, using the arts, I would not Imo condsider you a Martial Artist, I would consider you a fighter, nothing wrong with fighters, no problem, I have a friend who I would consider to be one and thats what he considers himself to be, as he has no interest in the art side of martial arts, he simply wants to fight better, feel better, be fitter and healthier and 'kick ***' if you would put it that way.
I dont know, its tricky and even with my opinion I dont want to offend some people with it. I cant really define it as you asid but in essence I would say if you truely consider yourself to be a Martial Artist, then thats what you are. I take pride in those two words, maybe I'm sad but hey, who cares!

kind regards

 

[Andrew Green]

What do you mean by "system"?

The belt rank. How it works and how most everyone thinks it works are completely different. Using this people can exploit it.

 

[Corporal Hicks]

What do you mean by "system"?

I think Andrew was referring to its abuse by people. Maybe I'm wrong lol! Since belts nowdays can be used to make money and are a key part of mc dojo's!

"So and so is obviously hard because they have a black belt in Karate!!", really?
'Discuss the validity of this statement with reference to specific examples?

I think not!
I have just realised that this has no revelance whatsoever, so time for cereal!

 

[Corporal Hicks]

And he actually put a reply anyway! :whip:

 

[dsp921]

The belt rank. How it works and how most everyone thinks it works are completely different. Using this people can exploit it.

I guess that's the part that I don't care about. Sure there are schools that give rank for nothing and one could say that cheapens the rank for those that really earn it. But that is really only a problem if what other people think matters. I don't wear my belt on the street and I rarely talk about my training so there is limited oppportunity to hear misguided opinions.
There really isn't a way to stop people from abusing or exploiting the rank system. I guess what it comes down to is that the individual needs to take the responsibility to make sure they are in a good situation and not being ripped off.

 

[47MartialMan]

No, what I meant to say was that, maybe the ranking system should be altered so that its not entirelly based on just technical skill or knowledge. There is a boundary, you can have a great technical fighter yet he knows nothing about that knowledge side of his art, therefore he has achieved the 'Martial' side of his art but knows nothing of the 'Art' side of his art.
I notice the fact that there seems to be some swaying that belts should only be awarded if somebody can be a great technical fighter, I dont believe that entirelly the case, as you said before both sides should be equally noticable. It seems that some would rather you achieve the belt through being a great fighter than being a Martial Artist. If you have achieved your belt through fighting skill only then that doesnt mean alot to me because I could not see the follow student in you who has strived to understand everything in the science of fighting but nothing else, unless your aim is to be a fighter, imo.

I totally agree that somebody should know the material and can apply it!

Or you could simply scrap belts altogether for adults. If you are real Martial Artist Imho then you would not care about your rank for it is not part of yourself, it does not make you who you are, you are as you as a person, wearing a belt may simply be there to increase your ego. I dont know, maybe I'm being harsh. Belts for motivation maybe. Dont mean to offend!

kind regards

Nice post...

I wonder how many would "shelve" their rank if knowledge and skill is most important

 

[Jerry]

Is this why "real physicists" don't persue degrees or awards?

 

[evenflow1121]

Its not funny. This was a decade or so ago. I have it saved somewhere. It was before the "Almighty Internet".

I dont think its funny, I think its outright insulting that a Senator who trains in one system, would want to have a std set for all systems and have his own instructor sit on the board.

 

[Tremble]

Yet here we all are, with Belt ranks on our posts???

 

[Corporal Hicks]

Yeah, true, but I cant get rid of mine!! Otherwise I would, same with the reputation points, if I found the option to turn them off I would. I come on here for the knowledge not for the reputation or to compare with others. Can I actually turn them off?

 

[arnisador]

Yeah, true, but I cant get rid of mine!! Otherwise I would, same with the reputation points, if I found the option to turn them off I would. I come on here for the knowledge not for the reputation or to compare with others. Can I actually turn them off?

I think you have to be a supporting member ($12/year), but then you can disable it.