How much mileage from a punch?

[Flying Crane]

The idea for this thread comes from another one out there that I was engaged in, and I thought it might be a good topic of its own.

So whaddaya all think? How much mileage can you get from a punch, and nothing more? Say you just get really good at being able to throw a solid punch from a strong stance. How much is that alone worth in Self Defense?

I think sometimes we tend to get all complicated with how we want to respond to various types of attacks. But maybe a good strong punch is all we really need, for most things.

tell me what ya think.

 

[Noah_Legel]

The idea for this thread comes from another one out there that I was engaged in, and I thought it might be a good topic of its own.

So whaddaya all think? How much mileage can you get from a punch, and nothing more? Say you just get really good at being able to throw a solid punch from a strong stance. How much is that alone worth in Self Defense?

I think sometimes we tend to get all complicated with how we want to respond to various types of attacks. But maybe a good strong punch is all we really need, for most things.

tell me what ya think.

And how do you propose to not get hit by the guy assaulting you in the first place? If when you say "a punch, and nothing more" you are referring ONLY to offensive techniques and tai sabaki and blocking/deflecting techniques are still in play then yes, I suppose you could do fine for yourself defensively as long as you are able to properly target your punches. Now, why you would ever do such a thing is beyond me, but it's an interesting thing to think about. If the ONLY thing that you've learned is using a strong stance to generate power for a great punch and there is no tai sabaki or blocking involved then no, you're going to get smashed in the face eventually.

 

[72ronin]

Hmm, definately not the only tech to have. Its probably the most thought about and or practised against shot in self-defense there is. As typicaly with people aggresion plays out through the hands in an encounter on the street or whatever.

It certainly is an extremely vital tool to have. It no dought ranks #1 as a fight finisher.
I think its important to have some other tools so as to set up the punch.
A good powerful leg kick needs a mention here, and probably has more chance of landing flush as a first strike.
I once mashed my small finger knuckle and fractured the supporting bone on someones forehead with a wild uppercut, I threw a jab they ducked, i followed with uppercut and connected with the forehead due to movement etc.

That was many years ago and i hadnt trained m/arts yet.. I dont know, its definately vital, but i lean towards other techs aswell these days.
Interesting.
cheers

 

[Cirdan]

If you can do a near-perfect punch you really know A LOT. You can counter most attacks for instance.

 

[Touch Of Death]

The idea for this thread comes from another one out there that I was engaged in, and I thought it might be a good topic of its own.

So whaddaya all think? How much mileage can you get from a punch, and nothing more? Say you just get really good at being able to throw a solid punch from a strong stance. How much is that alone worth in Self Defense?

I think sometimes we tend to get all complicated with how we want to respond to various types of attacks. But maybe a good strong punch is all we really need, for most things.

tell me what ya think.

Well, for me punches are all you need when you consider the process of punching is no different from the process of doing anything else. When I'm far away I can tag the guy, but if I'm real up close and affecting his posture I can drive my elbow through his chest cavity and catch that same target on the way back with my elbow on the return motion, simply by punching. Its all the Sam Ting.:mst:
Sean

 

[Josh Oakley]

A solid punch and a good stance by themselves have pretty low value, IMO. Now, assuming we're working with a good punch and stance, combined with superior timing, targeting, and body positioning, well then, maybe we have something there.

 

[Touch Of Death]

A solid punch and a good stance by themselves have pretty low value, IMO. Now, assuming we're working with a good punch and stance, combined with superior timing, targeting, and body positioning, well then, maybe we have something there.

I hope we are assuming a quality fighter here. Knowing when is important LOL
Sean

 

[Flying Crane]

A solid punch and a good stance by themselves have pretty low value, IMO. Now, assuming we're working with a good punch and stance, combined with superior timing, targeting, and body positioning, well then, maybe we have something there.

For the sake of discussion in the thread, let's assume physical skill with the technique is coupled with a strong knowledge and ability to actually use the punch effectively. I'm not putting the punch into a vaccuum, I'm not suggesting perfect form with no ability to use it.

 

[Josh Oakley]

For the sake of discussion in the thread, let's assume physical skill with the technique is coupled with a strong knowledge and ability to actually use the punch effectively. I'm not putting the punch into a vaccuum, I'm not suggesting perfect form with no ability to use it.

In which case I'd say there's a lot to work with. Basically we're talking about a boxer who doesn't block, then.

 

[Flying Crane]

In which case I'd say there's a lot to work with. Basically we're talking about a boxer who doesn't block, then.

don't limit yourself to thinking of a "squared-off" situation where both parties are throwing punches at each other. What about other kinds of attacks, pushes, grabs of various sorts, stuff like that...

 

[72ronin]

don't limit yourself to thinking of a "squared-off" situation where both parties are throwing punches at each other. What about other kinds of attacks, pushes, grabs of various sorts, stuff like that...

Aaah, but that takes us to other techs. Punching may not always be appropriate for the situation.

 

[Carol]

I think a good punch is hella effective. There was a story posted here on MT sometime back (tried to find it but couldn't) about an abduction that was thwarted because the teen girl was able to escape after giving the perp a good smack in the kissah.

But that opens up how much other work is done to set up the punch, eh? For example, training in footwork to get in to a position where one can throw a good punch. Training stances for stability and posture when throwing a punch. Its possible to go further to include blocking and grappling to set up a punch, even cardio and weight training to help improve one's sensitivity to pain.

 

[Talon]

The "Punch" is the bread and butter of most unarmed physical combat. How many bar fights have you seen ended by one good one? Now, how many fights have you seen ended by a flying, ninja, death kick? A punch can be thrown from any position and from any angle. "Stance" is usually irrelevant.

 

[Flying Crane]

Aaah, but that takes us to other techs. Punching may not always be appropriate for the situation.

does it have to?

 

[ralphmcpherson]

It depends. I divide different "real life scenarios" into 2 categories. The first is where you throw the first thing. In this case anybody with a fair degree of martial arts training under their belt should win 99% of the time. By black belt (for instance) you should be proficient enough in enough attacks that if you decide to go and start it you should win. For example, a good boxer, if he throws a punch at the average joe then its all over. A good kicker, if he kicks the top of your knee its off to hospital for a knee reconstruction. The 2nd category is where you dont throw the first attack. This is where real fighting ability comes into play if you want to survive. So in terms of category 1 a very good punch has heaps of mileage, but category 2 the punch is of no use unless you avoid, block etc the first attack.

 

[clfsean]

A punch? Pretty versatile.

It can be a strike. *check*
It can be a bridge. *check*
It can be a key to a throws & locks. *check*

Punches don't have to be straight line. Punches don't have to be aimed at the opponent directly. Punches are... your arm extending out from your body to be used for something. That something is up to your needs.

A punch can do lots of things if taken out of the wrapper & given a chance to breath.

 

[WC_lun]

A good punch is a very good tool. It can be the best tool in many situations and it can be the absolute worst tool in others. In my opinion, this is like asking how useful is a screw driver. Its great when you have a screw to drive, but not so good as a hammer. Having said that, I think a very good punch is sometimes overlooked in its usefullness. It can be very effective and effecient. It is also not purely an offensive tool. A punch can be used as both defense and offense all in the same motion, such when sliding the bridge while stepping to a flank.

 

[Nomad]

Considering that one punch knockouts happen with reasonable regularity, and one punch kills (usually with the person knocked out subsequently cracking their head open on the pavement behind them) can and do happen as well, you can definitely get a lot out of a single punch... sometimes more than you bargained for (like 10 years or so in prison for manslaughter).

Of course, as has been stated, many many other factors come into play here, and can serve to diminish the effectiveness of the punch, including targeting, timing, commitment, whether or not the person being punched knows it's coming, and so on.

IMO, it's a very very effective tool if used correctly, but you don't want to rely on it alone.

 

[AidanO]

The "Punch" is the bread and butter of most unarmed physical combat. How many bar fights have you seen ended by one good one? Now, how many fights have you seen ended by a flying, ninja, death kick? A punch can be thrown from any position and from any angle. "Stance" is usually irrelevant.

Absolutely none. But isn't that the point of a ninja? You can't see them?

Sorry I couldn't leave this one alone.

More specifically on topic, I know a guy who only trains 1 technique. It's a double punch, where he has one fist over the top of the other, both vertical. He also does iron fist training. (Not sure how his arthritis is going to be in a few years, but that's not the point, his punches HURT.)

The power generation for this punch is a rolling move. And this is all he trains, this one punch at different heights and angles. He can deflect with his forearms as he's rolling and punch straight through, form perfect. I've seen him take down pretty much anyone stupid enough to come against him. Would it be good legally? Depends on the situation. Is it enough? Well, I've never seen a grappler get in close, anyone trying to lock him up he just rolls his arms out of it and punches them.

It takes the saying about 10,000 reps to stupid extremes. As far as I'm aware, he's been doing this for over 20 years, with over 1000 reps a day. A quick use of the calculator tells me that's a bare minimum of 7,300,000 repetitions.

So in short a 'good' punch is extremely powerful and all you need. It just depends on your punch, how you use it and where you have refined it to the point that you really don't need anything else.

 

[baron]

Gichin Funakoshi said;

When the seiken is used correctly, the knuckle of the middle finger strikes the opponent in one straight blow, with all the force of the arm behind it. The seiken may properly be called the heart of karate and should be practied every day and with the utmost thoroughness. Unless it is completely effective, all kata and kumite become worthless.

By the way I remember reading an article about a man from Hawaii who was called one finger Charlie. At least I think his name was Charlie. He kept hitting a iron plate with one finger. it was said he could stop any attack with that one finger poke.